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The Worldwide Response to Russia's War On Ukraine

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Monash View Post

    Possibly, but there should be a couple of other alternate, low cost platforms similar to Tucano's out there. Point being Ukraine could really use a cheap ground attack platform to bolster it's chances of success in this war. Such is the state of the 'modern' Russian army that it is relying heavily on fixed/static defenses (trenches, bunkers, tank obstacles etc) in order to defeat the upcoming Ukrainian offensive. So anything Ukraine can bring to the party that would help them breach those defenses should be welcomed.
    My questions would revolve around survivability of the platforms absent any sort of air cover. If Ukraine thinks they can use such an aircraft I'm all in favour. There are certainly a few contenders, but availability & willingess to sell might be an issue. The Korean TA-50 would fit the bill, but getting them might not be so easy. Realistically buying every SU-25 that can be found is the best idea, followed by giving them a bunch of old A-10s.
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #77
      Germany to Place Leopard Tank Order Worth Up to $3.2 Billion



      (Bloomberg) -- Germany is poised to order 18 Leopard 2 main battle tanks to replace units sent to Ukraine with an option for 105 more at a total cost of around €2.9 billion ($3.2 billion), according to people familiar with the plan.

      The budget committee in the lower house of parliament is expected to approve the initial order of 18 tanks — worth about €525 million — at the end of this month, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing confidential information.

      The order is the latest in a broader push to modernize Germany’s armed forces triggered by Russia’s war on Ukraine. On top of the annual defense budget of some €50 billion, Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s ruling coalition has created a special fund worth €100 billion to try to reverse years of underinvestment in the military.

      A Defense Ministry spokeswoman confirmed that the government is in advanced talks to buy 18 Leopard tanks to replace those sent to Ukraine. She declined to comment on the financial details of the order, saying talks are still ongoing.

      The Leopard tank is built by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann GmbH & Co. KG, with Rheinmetall AG supplying components including the gun and MTU Solutions — a unit of Rolls-Royce Holdings Plc — the drive systems. A spokesman for KMW declined to comment, while spokespeople for Rheinmetall did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

      German lawmakers this week approved the purchase of 50 Puma infantry fighting vehicles at a cost of €1.5 billion and Defense Minister Boris Pistorius raised the prospect of another order later this year.

      The contract for the Pumas includes an option for 61 additional units, taking the total ordered to 111, the people said.
      ________
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

        My questions would revolve around survivability of the platforms absent any sort of air cover. If Ukraine thinks they can use such an aircraft I'm all in favour. There are certainly a few contenders, but availability & willingess to sell might be an issue. The Korean TA-50 would fit the bill, but getting them might not be so easy. Realistically buying every SU-25 that can be found is the best idea, followed by giving them a bunch of old A-10s.
        Someone on WAB may be able to confirm this but I suspect piston engines aircraft would be easier and quicker to convert over to. For that matter Ukraine would probably have a pool of experienced civilian pilots it could bring up to speed quickly albeit there's a hell of a lot of difference bewtween flying your Cessna or small commercial bird across the country and performing ground attack maneuvers in contested airspace. Beyond that something like a Tucano, provided it was equipped with the appropriate countermeasure package would probably be more survivable than an attack helicopter even if they they carry less payload. I also suspect the main threat would be MANPADS because (and again someone here may know more) I've heard or read nothing that indicates Russia' vehicle mounted SAM/radar systems have performed any better in combat than the rest of their military!
        Last edited by Monash; 12 May 23,, 22:57.
        If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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        • #79
          2.7 billion Euro package by Germany…color me impressed, an American sized package!

          4x Iris-T, 30x Leopard 1A5, 20x Marder, 18x RCH 155 Haubitze, 200x surveillance drones, 100x MRAPs, and more…
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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          • #80
            Originally posted by astralis View Post
            2.7 billion Euro package by Germany…color me impressed, an American sized package!
            Most of the stuff was already pledged beforehand though. The only new things announced are additional IRIS-T SLM systems, IRIS-T SLS (probably the Swedish ones) and 100 "protected vehicles" of nondescript nature (probably Dingo).

            As of April 24th Germany has delivered exactly those 2.7 billion Euro in military equipment. The new announcement can be seen more along the lines of "and within the next few months we'll have doubled that!".

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            • #81
              Poland gets 1st U.S.-made HIMARS rocket launchers amid concerns over war in Ukraine

              WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland has received its first shipment of U.S.-made HIMARS rocket launchers as part of a defense upgrade amid security concerns due to the war in neighboring Ukraine.

              Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak and military officials attended an acquisition ceremony at a Warsaw air base on Monday.

              Blaszczak said that combat in Ukraine had proven the value of the HIMARS and that NATO member Poland was seeking to procure additional launchers, with a goal of acquiring some 500 units.

              “We are watching the developments in Ukraine, and we know that artillery has a key role in the war, in repelling the Russian invasion," he said.

              Under a 2019 contract, Poland is spending some $414 million (380 million euros) to buy 18 advanced combat HIMARS launchers and two HIMARS training launchers, with ammunition and related equipment. The deal includes logistics and training.

              The launchers will go to the 1st Artillery Brigade in northeastern Poland, Blaszczak said.

              “Their task will be to deter (an) aggressor and strengthen Poland's armed forces on the nation's and NATO eastern flank,” the minister said.

              A HIMARS academy is to be launched in the city of Torun to provide logistics, servicing and training, including for troops from other NATO countries that have or plan to get the launchers.

              Produced by American aerospace company Lockheed Martin, the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System is a multiple rocket launcher with a range of up to some 300 kilometers (190 miles) developed in the late 1990s for the U.S. armed forces.

              Poland is buying billions of dollars’ worth of weapons, chiefly from the U.S. and South Korea, including fighter jets, to modernize its armed forces.

              Some of the equipment will replace weapons - including over a dozen Soviet-made MiG-29 jet fighters - that Poland agreed to give Ukraine for its defense against Russia.

              Poland's right-wing government, which will be seeking a third term in a fall parliamentary election, is giving the purchases wide publicity, seeking to reassure Poles amid a military conflict across their eastern border.

              Last year, Poland received a number of U.S. Patriot missile systems, and deliveries of another battery are expected this year. The first deliveries of Abrams tanks have also arrived from the U.S., as well as deliveries of tanks and howitzers from South Korea.
              _______
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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              • #82
                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Poland's right-wing government, which will be seeking a third term in a fall parliamentary election, is giving the purchases wide publicity, seeking to reassure Poles amid a military conflict across their eastern border.
                As a note there: Among Polish people i've talked to this is perceived more as "the government is promising weapon procurement with money it doesn't have - because they won't have to worry about it anyway when they lose the election, and those promises and contracts will then be the problem of the next government".

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by kato View Post
                  As a note there: Among Polish people i've talked to this is perceived more as "the government is promising weapon procurement with money it doesn't have - because they won't have to worry about it anyway when they lose the election, and those promises and contracts will then be the problem of the next government".
                  Sigh...yeah, that sounds about right.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Factbox-Why Ukraine is bidding for F-16 jets and will it succeed?


                    Welcome ceremony for Denmark Royal Air Force F-16 jets arrival as part of NATO Eastern Europe reinforcement in Siauliai

                    MADRID (Reuters) - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy says he is making progress in persuading the West to supply Ukraine with fighter jets - with U.S.-built F-16s flown by several NATO nations in particular focus.

                    On a tour of European capitals this week he received pledges from British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and Dutch PM Mark Rutte to help build a "jets coalition", although both leaders have stopped short of saying they will send planes.

                    "We want to create this jets coalition and I'm very positive with it... I see that in the closest time you will hear some, I think, very important decisions, but we have to work a little bit more on it," Zelenskiy said in London on Monday.

                    Western governments have been wary of leaving their own countries undefended by giving away too much equipment. They have also avoided sending anything that could strike deep into Russian territory and give Moscow a reason to escalate the war.

                    WHAT KIND OF FIGHTER JETS COULD UKRAINE GET?

                    Ukraine wants F-16s, which it says are "four or five times" more effective than Soviet-era jets it currently has.

                    Washington has ruled out sending F-16s to Ukraine for now.

                    Any coalition of donors of the F-16, built by Lockheed-Martin, would likely be reliant on backing from the United States, by far the largest operator of the planes.

                    WHAT HAS BEEN GIVEN SO FAR?

                    No Western-designed jets have yet been donated. Poland and Slovakia have handed over 27 MiG-29s to supplement Ukraine's current fleet.

                    Poland has given Ukraine 14 MiG-29s and has said it will give more. However, Polish President Andrzej Duda reiterated on Tuesday that Poland has too few F-16 jets to be able to give any to Ukraine.

                    Slovakia has donated 13 Mig-29s in various states of airworthiness to Ukraine.

                    WHERE MIGHT THE JETS COME FROM?

                    Rutte said on May 4 that the Netherlands was working with allies including Britain, Belgium and Denmark to reach a conclusion on whether to send jets to Ukraine. The Netherlands has 24 F-16s operational until mid-2024, when they will be replaced by F-35s. It has also 18 F-16s non-operational, of which 12 have been sold.

                    Britain will not send jets to Ukraine, a spokesperson for Sunak has said, since Britain does not have the F-16s that Ukraine wants. Britain had previously said that the time required to train pilots and the substantial support crews needed to send its Eurofighter Typhoon jets meant they would be of little immediate use, but Sunak has said Britain stands willing to support any country willing to send jets.

                    German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius said on Wednesday the country has neither the training capacity nor the right equipment to actively contribute to the initiative to help Ukraine source fighter jets.

                    Denmark said in February it was "open" to the idea of sending fighter jets to Ukraine. Denmark currently has around 30 F-16s in operation.

                    One alternative to the F-16 could be the JAS Gripen fighter jet produced by Swedish defence manufacturer SAAB, which is seen as a more cost-effective alternative to the F-16. The aircraft is operated by Sweden and a handful of other countries such as South Africa and Brazil.

                    Sweden has repeatedly said there are no plans to send Gripens to Ukraine and that the Nordic country, which has applied to join NATO, needs its existing inventory. The Czech Republic uses rented Gripens while Slovakia is waiting to receive F-16s and currently relies on allies to cover its airspace.

                    Czech President Petr Pavel has mentioned that the Czech Republic could give some of its light, sub-sonic L-159s, but this is theoretical at this point.

                    HOW SOON COULD UKRAINE START USING THEM?

                    U.S. officials have estimated the most expeditious time needed for training and delivery of F-16s at 18 months.

                    French President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday that France is open to training Ukrainian pilots in France right away. France does not have F-16s, only French-made Rafale warplanes and the previous generation Mirage 2000 jets.

                    London has agreed to start training pilots in the spring and said it will look at shortening the sessions for experienced Ukrainian pilots.

                    “This is not about gifting weapon systems. This is about gifting a platform. If anyone follows Formula One, you don’t just gift a car, you have to gift a pit team," UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said on Wednesday.

                    Some fighter jet models are likely to prove more suitable than others.

                    Justin Bronk from the RUSI think tank said Typhoons and F-16s would need to operate from smooth runways and centralised bases, while Sweden's Gripen planes could fly at lower altitudes and be serviced on shorter, rougher airstrips.
                    ______
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                    • #85
                      https://www.politico.eu/article/turk...aldimir-putin/

                      Erdoğan: I have a ‘special relationship’ with Putin — and it’s only growing
                      ‘Russia and Turkey need each other in every field possible,’ says Turkish president.
                      “Keep Your Friends Close; and Your Enemies Closer”
                      It was apparently Sun Tzu who hit the nail on the head, as to why NATO; pragmatics and real politik considerations aside, hasn’t booted Turkey out of the alliance!
                      I ask as a layman, can it really be sane for what is essentially a military alliance, to have one of its members, so cozy with the very same potential enemy, it was created and still exist to protect against?

                      When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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                      • #86
                        Of course, what is truly hilarious is that Turkey had no qualms giving Kyiv TB2s, MRAPs, and DPICMs.

                        Erdogan is a nasty little cockroach of a rug merchant, and like said cockroach he keeps on staying around pissing everyone off.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          'I parked my tank in someone's back garden - and they didn’t mind at all'


                          Lance Corp Harry Bloomfield and the British Challenger 2 tanks, which are part of Operation Spring Storm in Estonia

                          When British Challenger 2 tanks rolled into Estonian villages in recent weeks, they were greeted with open arms.

                          It didn't matter that soldiers were disrupting this usually sleepy town by parking their tanks in residents’ gardens and pilots landing Apache helicopters in makeshift paddocks: anything to deter an invasion by Vladimir Putin has been welcomed.

                          Estonians know all too well what life under Russian occupation is like, having lived through it from 1940 until the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Families were subjected to mass deportations to Siberia, thousands of people were murdered and a culture and language stunted.

                          It is this harrowing recent history that has ensured Nato troops received a warm welcome as they came to town. Lt Col Steve Wilson, Commanding Officer of the Queen’s Royal Hussars, whose crew has been exercising with Challenger 2 tanks, told The Telegraph: “The support from the local people has been positive and quite impressive.

                          “I parked my tank in someone’s back garden, plus they had two Wildcat helicopters landing in the paddock next to their garden. They came out and were pretty curious, so the troops showed the family’s kids around the tank. They were receptive because they are acutely aware of the threat that sits on their eastern border.”

                          As part of Exercise Spring Storm, which involves 14,000 troops from Nato nations, of which more than 1,500 troops are British, ground units have been tested on realistic battlefield scenarios including trench assaults, reconnaissance missions, and light infantry tactics.

                          Lt Col Wilson explained that as the war in Ukraine rages on, Exercise Spring Storm had a more “pertinent” feel than previous exercises. “The Estonians are living with the Russians on their doorstep, so it does feel real, particularly with the events that have happened in Ukraine and the UK’s commitment to supporting Ukraine,” he said.

                          He added that in his more than 20 years serving with the British military, he has never exercised outside a Central Training Area (CTA), having to stick to Salisbury Plain in the UK or Sennelager in Germany. “Over the course of Spring Storm, we’ve not been constrained to the CTA, we’ve been out and about the local area,” he explained.

                          “We’ve been training beyond the constraints of traditional training grounds. That [has] meant tanks on roads going through private and public land. That adds gravitas to the training, but it’s also exercising on the land we might have to defend.”


                          Lt Col Al Rivett's 1st Army Air Corps has been giving air support to British troops during Exercise Spring Storm

                          Of particular interest has been showcasing the Challenger 2 tank, 14 of which the UK gifted to Ukraine earlier this year, with a number taken from the QRH stockpiles. The tanks on exercise have additional armour on the sides, having been upgraded in order to show “we mean business”.

                          “We know that our adversary only respects strength,” Lt Col Wilson added. “We want to show the British army’s capabilities to its absolute strongest.”

                          Just recently, the Challenger 2 won an international tank competition in Latvia, beating the US main battle tank Abrams. “It shows our main battle tank is still current and reinforces the strategic narrative that we are sending that tank to Ukraine. It demonstrates that it is an incredible front line main battle tank,” he said.

                          L-Cpl Harry Bloomfield, a 23-year-old tank driver, added that the Challenger 2 was “famous for a reason”.

                          It’s the best in the world, everybody knows it. It’s why we gave 14 to Ukraine,” he said. “It’s unfortunate what’s happening in Ukraine but as long as we keep giving the Estonian Army peace of mind to know they have Nato at their side, they know they aren’t alone living on the border with Russia. We are here to show that we’ve got the potential of helping Estonians out, that we have the force and overall capabilities of the battle group.”

                          The UK retains a continuous deployment in Estonia as part of its Nato commitment, known as the enhanced Forward Presence (eFP). At last year’s Nato summit, it was agreed that the UK would increase the size of its eFP commitment. As such, this year’s exercise has marked the first time the UK has conducted a brigade-sized deployment to Estonia, involving hundreds more personnel than in previous deployments.


                          Lt Col Jon Harris and Corp Matthew Biggins with their Jackal 2 armoured vehicles

                          As part of the exercise troops from 16 Air Assault Brigade parachuted into Estonia, while around 100 Royal Marines took part in a night-time beach raid, deploying from the Royal Navy amphibious assault ship, HMS Albion. Members of 45 Commando manoeuvred their Inflatable Raiding Craft, which can travel at speeds of up to 20 knots, through the waves to close in on the beach at Kaberneeme, on the north coast of Estonia, before facing off against Estonia’s Armed Forces, with an Estonian naval missile unit acting as the marines’ target. Meanwhile two RAF Typhoon fighter jets were on station to provide close air support, information, surveillance and reconnaissance during the exercise, enabling integrated training between land, sea and air.

                          With Tapa Camp just 160km from the Russian border, in years gone by troops have been forbidden from working with live fire because it “sent the wrong message”.

                          Lt Col Al Rivett, of 1st Army Air Corp, said “we were previously told not to do so because it would be seen as sabre rattling”.

                          However, today, with Russia a pariah state, Nato’s tune has changed. As Spring Storm nears its final section members of the RAF will carry out training exercises in reconnaissance and air-land integration, with the air exercises supported by four Wildcat and five Apache helicopters, as well as three RAF Typhoon fighter jets.

                          Lt Col Rivett added: “Now we are reinforcing the commitment to Estonia that they will always have air support and defence.”
                          _________

                          Things that warm your heart
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                          • #88
                            Reminds me of REFORGER 1982. Our brigade was attacking northward east of Wurzburg. Autobahn 3 and the railroad running beside it proved to be a significant obstacle. There was one small town which had an underpass and rail crossing where we attacked. I was a mortar platoon leader so I was about 2 kilometers south of the crossing point uphill and in a wood line. I watched for 3 hours while 2 tank and 3 Infantry battalions fought over the town...and absolutely trashed it. Crushed curbstone, asphalt chewed up, bushes smashed and flattened. Quite the sight. And unlike the Estonians, the locals were not happy to see us!
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • #89
                              Plan to return decommissioned Leopard 2 tanks to Germany wins backing of Swiss executive branch

                              GENEVA (AP) — Switzerland's executive branch on Wednesday threw its weight behind a proposal to decommission 25 out-of-service Leopard 2 battle tanks that Germany's government wants returned to the German manufacturer to help plug gaps in Berlin's arsenal after it shipped tanks of its own to Ukraine.

                              The Federal Council, the Swiss seven-member executive body, said it backs a proposal from a key parliamentary security-policy committee to decommission the tanks and re-export them to Germany. Defense Minister Viola Amherd is expected to endorse the plan a speech to the lower house of the legislature next month.

                              Any such re-export would also require the backing of the upper house at its session in September, and a subsequent go-ahead from the Swiss economy minister. The tanks would be sent only on condition that they would be returned to manufacturer Rheinmetall — and not go to Ukraine.

                              Russia's invasion of Ukraine has led Switzerland to grapple with its longtime, constitutionally-mandated adherence to neutrality, which among other things bars the export of Swiss-made or Swiss-owned weaponry or war material to combatants in active conflicts.

                              Switzerland, however, has lined up with European Union sanctions targeting Russian individuals and businesses in the wake of the invasion.

                              The Swiss army currently uses 134 renovated Leopard-2 A4 WE tanks, and holds another 96 that have not been renovated and have been mothballed.

                              Germany's economy and defense ministers in February reached out to Swiss authorities in February seeking the re-sale of the tanks to Rheinmetall, Swiss officials say. The ministers committed to keeping the tanks in Germany or among NATO or EU partners to complement their arsenals.

                              Germany has delivered 18 of its Leopard 2A6 tanks to Ukraine.
                              ______
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Full article: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ion-to-ukraine
                                UK to keep Kremlin assets frozen until Russia pays compensation to Ukraine

                                Britain is likely to keep Russian state assets immobilised for some time after the war in Ukraine ends, and certainly until Moscow has agreed to pay compensation for the damage it has inflicted, British officials have confirmed.

                                The Council of Europe summit last week established a digital register of damage for Ukraine as the first step towards an international compensation mechanism for victims of Russian aggression.

                                Last Friday, the UK foreign secretary, James Cleverly, insisted that Russia’s sovereign assets would remain immobilised until Russia agreed to pay for the damage it had caused in Ukraine. But the consequences of the evolving British position on postwar negotiations with Russia, including the retention of Russian central bank assets as leverage for compensation, are only gradually emerging. It is thought that about $300bn (£243bn) in Russian central bank reserves were in G7 states at the time of the freezing, but the mapping of the assets is not complete.

                                Officials say work is continuing day and night, including with the EU, over the feasibility of confiscating Russian state assets, but no solution has yet been found. Tory backbench MPs, the Labour party and the Ukrainian government are pressing for Russian state assets held in the UK – valued at £26bn last year – to be seized outright and then handed directly to Ukraine for reconstruction.

                                But an alternative, less legally risky strategy is gaining ground whereby the west holds on to the assets until Russia agrees to pay compensation. The same objective of Russia’s funding of Ukraine’s reconstruction would be achieved, but without taking the risk of breaching international law by simply seizing Russian assets.
                                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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