U.S. Response to Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

[Monash]

I just want top quality Canadian maple syrup (which I can't get) and Bourbon (which I can't afford - much of).

[Red Team]

I just want top quality Canadian maple syrup (which I can't get) and Bourbon (which I can't afford - much of).

My friend who emigrated from Russia has been missing vodka from the homeland since they were taken off the shelves. Bourbon in particular, has proven to be quite an effective remedy for this particular brand of homesickness.

[Monash]

Cards still to play
Close Russian consulates in the US, they have 4.

Allow the Ukrainian government to sue Russian assets in the US.

Issue Interpol Red Notices against oligarchs.

Scrap the Iran deal and immunize the Saudi crown prince in trade for mass increases in oil production.

Announce sanctions on accessing the US financial markets for any forgien business doing business in Russia.

Sorry meant to reply to this earlier. That first one would be a real help, especially with the post war rebuilding effort. The rest? Not so sure.

The deal with the oligarchs has long been that they can make money so long as they toe the line and don't involve themselves in politics. So their ability to influence those around Putin and other high office holders (which is what they'd have to do to topple Putin) is both limited and extremely risky for them at the personnel level. Least ways that's whats happened in the past. SO while collectively they all have great influence in the Russian private sector their influence in government is marginal. Plus you can bet Putin is having them and their families watched like a hawk.

The Iran deal might also get more oil in the market on the short term, if that's the main concern. I would suggest playing them off against each other and hinting the Saudis that their access to US military systems and spare parts etc is dependent on them remaining reliable allies. The Khashoggi issue? Is hard for the US to influence because even though America might be prepared to slip this particular issue under the carpet the Europe and the rest of the world is unlikely to be as obliging. That's just going to take years to go away. And maybe it should - Bin Salam needs to learn a hard lesson.

The last one is pretty much assured should significant trade become evident in anything except maybe food and medicine etc. Anyway the only significant partner they have left is China and it's showing no signs (yet) of wanting to risk its much more important/valuable trade links with the West. Some stuff might be slipped through but if significant amounts of Chinese made military supplies and other strategic products start showing up in Russia it will get noticed.

[Bigfella]

The less people knows about world awarding winning Australian single malts, the better it is for the rest of us snobs.

I can recommend Morris Bros. if it gets as far as Nth America. Less expensive than the Tasmanian & WA whiskies, but tastes beautiful.

https://www.morriswhisky.com/

I also have a distant family connection - my grandfather used to bake & deliver their bread & deliver their mail for about 40 years.

[TopHatter]

AP FACT CHECK: Trump distorts Obama-Biden aid to Ukraine

WASHINGTON (AP) — Casting himself as tough on Russia, former President Donald Trump lowballed the amount of U.S. military aid provided to Ukraine during the Obama-Biden administration and claimed that only he himself in recent history didn’t face a Russian invasion of another country. Not true.

Trump's vice president, Mike Pence, meanwhile, made a suspect claim that all of Ukraine's weapons now in use came from the Trump administration.

A look at the weekend claims and reality:

TRUMP, comparing military aid in his administration to that under President Barack Obama: “I was the one that sent the Javelins, not Obama. Obama sent blankets.” — rally Saturday in Commerce, Georgia.

PENCE: “The Obama-Biden administration only sent them meals and blankets.” — interview Friday on Fox News Channel.

THE FACTS: Trump and Pence are misrepresenting the amount of aid under Obama and Biden and glossing over their own delays in helping Ukraine.

While the Obama administration refused to provide Ukraine with lethal weapons in 2014 to fight Russian-backed separatists, it offered a range of other military and security aid — not just “blankets.” The administration’s concern was that providing lethal weapons like Javelin anti-tank missiles might provoke Russian President Vladimir Putin to escalate the conflict in the separatist Donbas area of Ukraine near Russia’s border.

By March 2015, the Obama administration had provided more than $120 million in security aid for Ukraine and promised $75 million worth of equipment, including counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Defense Department. The U.S. also pledged 230 Humvee vehicles.

The U.S. aid offer came after Putin in 2014 annexed Crimea and provided support for separatists in eastern cities.

Ultimately between 2014 and 2016, the Obama administration committed more than $600 million in security aid to Ukraine.

In the last year of the Obama administration, the U.S. established the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which provided U.S. military equipment and training to help defend Ukraine against Russian aggression. From 2016 to 2019, Congress appropriated $850 million for this initiative.

The Trump administration in 2017 agreed to provide lethal aid to Ukraine, later committing to sell $47 million in Javelins.

But two years later, Trump delayed the release of congressionally approved security assistance for Ukraine as part of an effort to pressure Ukraine to announce an investigation of his political rival, Joe Biden. The matter was part of Trump’s 2020 impeachment trial.

___

TRUMP: “In fact, I stand as the only president of the 21st century on whose watch Russia and Putin did not invade any other country.” — Saturday rally.

THE FACTS: Trump is not the only one.

Putin, who served as Russia's president from 2000 to 2008, and then as prime minister before returning to the presidency in 2012, did in fact invade Georgia in 2008 during George W. Bush’s second term. He also moved in on Ukraine in 2014 on Obama’s watch. It's also true that Putin did not invade a country during Trump’s term.

But Bill Clinton, who finished his second term in January 2001, also never saw an invasion by Putin into another country. Russia did attack Chechnya twice in the 1990s, but Chechnya is a region of Russia, not a country.

___

PENCE: “The Ukrainian soldiers are using the arms that our administration provided to them, and they were suspended by the Biden administration.” — Fox interview.

THE FACTS: That’s a stretch. With both sides going through weapons and ammunition very quickly in the brutal Ukraine-Russia war, it’s dubious that the Javelins Ukraine received from the U.S. during the Trump years would be still on the shelf. Trump did not provide Stinger anti-aircraft systems to the Ukrainians.

Including the $800 million package announced by Biden on March 16, the total designated military aid for Ukraine since Biden took office is about $2 billion. The assistance, some of it drawn from $13.6 billion in military and humanitarian assistance recently approved by Congress to help Ukraine and its neighbors, has included a number of lethal weapons such as Stingers, Javelin anti-armor systems, Mi-17 helicopters, grenade launchers, Humvees, body armor and helmets.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has urged the West to provide his country with warplanes and air defense missiles, stressing on Sunday that “it’s necessary not just for Ukraine’s freedom, but for the freedom of Europe.”

___

[zraver]

Can someone please shut Biden up before he talks his way into WWIII. I know many here are part of Biden's bootlick army but jfc, calling for Putin to be removed, telling the 82nd they are going to Ukraine.... Ya I get he misspoke, that's the problem.

Hope ya'll have bug out plans. We are closer to midnight after Biden's Polish extravaganza than at any other time. Wish we had a JFK and Russia had a Krushev.

[Albany Rifles]

"...are part of Biden's bootlick army..."

Pot, meet kettle.

[Albany Rifles]

Sadly my non-WAB experiences suggest that you are correct. I started out expecting that pretty much every American I encountered would be way better informed on US history & politics. Apparently not. Not even close, in fact. On the other hand (and again outside WAB), Americans discussing Australia at best know about 3 things about us, two of which are at least partially wrong. During COVID I rapidly worked out that it was pointless trying to explain that we had states with different laws. Too much detail.


Well I had some unfair advantages:

1) My fascination with World War 2 as a young boy lead me to learn about the Battle for North Africa and learned about the Desert Rats...not to mention the many WW 2 movies and books available back in the 60s & 70s.

2) My Dad had been to Australia on a brief port call at the end of WW 2 and spoke glowingly of the city.

3) A a senior in High School in DC in 1975 I dated the daughter of Australia's Defense Attaché for about 7 months!

[Albany Rifles]

to visit again to stock up so we can finally catch up in person.

Left out Greg Norman and Yahoo Serious.

[Albany Rifles]

My friend who emigrated from Russia has been missing vodka from the homeland since they were taken off the shelves. Bourbon in particular, has proven to be quite an effective remedy for this particular brand of homesickness.

Any particular brands tickle his fancy?

[Officer of Engineers]

Pot, meet kettle.

Pot! Finish cooking my dinner. Kettle, my coffee is cold. Stop yapping and get back to work.

[Albany Rifles]

Pot! Finish cooking my dinner. Kettle, my coffee is cold. Stop yapping and get back to work.

I am taking a rare day off today, Colonel.

Leave me to my day drinking!

[zraver]

"...are part of Biden's bootlick army..."

Pot, meet kettle.

Yeah, no. Less than 1 in 3 Americans think Biden is up to dealing with Russia and 8 in 10 are worried about nuclear war. Biden waltz into Poland said US troops were going to Ukraine, the US would respond in kind to any WMD attack and that Putin could not be left in power. Yeah his handlers walked all that back, But Putin already believed those things. It's just confirmation to him that the US is out to get him so it's win or die. Even Macron is pointing out that Biden's Poland trip made things worse not better.

[DOR]

Apparently, having a Commander in Chief who speaks in complete sentences and uses words correctly – you know, a Democrat – causes outrage whenever he says what everyone is thinking: Putin's gotta go.

Now, any thinking person – I'm not looking at you, Fox “News” – would take his comment as an expression of frustration. No thinking person would even dream of suggesting that this was somehow instantly and irreversably Official United States Government Policy, RIP.

“I was talking to the Russian people,” Biden said on Monday at the White House when asked by Collins why he ad-libbed the line.
“The last part of the speech was talking to Russian people,” he said. “I was communicating this to, not only the Russian people but the whole world. This is … just stating a simple fact that this kind of behavior is totally unacceptable. Totally unacceptable. And the way to deal with it is to strengthen and keep NATO completely united and help Ukraine where we can.”
Biden emphasized that he was speaking from the heart following a meeting with Ukrainian refugees in Warsaw.
“I’d just come from being with those families,” he said, adding, “I make no apologies for it.”

And, of course, the other source of outrage:

As he was hailing the heroism of the Ukrainians, Biden told US troops, “You’re going to see when you’re there” — even though he’s vowed American forces won’t be entering the conflict directly. Afterward, a spokesman said nothing had changed: “The President has been clear we are not sending US troops to Ukraine.”

On Monday, Biden pushed back on any suggestion he’d told US troops stationed in Poland they were going to Ukraine, telling a reporter, “We were talking about helping train the troops that are the Ukrainian troops that are in Poland. That’s the context.”

[zraver]

1. Yeah DoR we are all thinking it, but Biden who has the troops and the nukes said it. Putin doesn't care what anyone thinks except for other nuclear leaders. Sadly Biden is one of those. This is a time for statesmanship not braggadocio. Noticed I referenced JFK and his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis. JFK a Democrat who was a good and able statesman who along with Krushev saved the world. Biden also a Democrat, a brain dead moron who may accidentally end the world trying to get in a snappy applause line.

2. So what is US policy if presidential pronouncements can't be trusted? Like I said, the French President basically facepalmed and said Biden made things worse.

3. If you think he can speak in full sentences you haven't been paying attention.