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U.S. Response to Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

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  • #61
    Originally posted by tantalus View Post
    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/st...42116016128005

    Not bombing nuclear facilites is a good idea so encouraging a ceasefire to avoid such an event is on face value obvious.

    Is it basically the same with Tulsi above. Warzones in countries with bio labs is bad and she has a strong bias to speaking about that particular tail risk due to her world view.
    There was never any question of bombing nuclear facilities. They were secured to prevent any attacks and pinning the blame on the Russians.

    Originally posted by tantalus View Post
    Am i missing something important?
    Opposition party making hay
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 22,, 18:35.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      There was never any question of bombing nuclear facilities. They were secured to prevent any attacks and pinning the blame on the Russians.

      No, they were attacked, we all saw the video. UA only had light infantry there and post attack Russia has allowed the Ukrainian techs to keep manning their stations. It was an attack on Ukraine. The Russia apologia in the face of video evidence we all watch is absurd. Literally the equivalent of someone in 1939 justifying the German invasion of Poland because Goebbels said Germans were being mistreated in Danzig.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by zraver View Post
        No, they were attacked, we all saw the video.
        Yes but it was on the periphery of the facility. Not on the nuclear facility. To be clear

        Originally posted by zraver View Post
        UA only had light infantry there and post attack Russia has allowed the Ukrainian techs to keep manning their stations. It was an attack on Ukraine.
        De-militarised and under Russian control. They've gone for the power stations.

        Originally posted by zraver View Post
        The Russia apologia in the face of video evidence we all watch is absurd. Literally the equivalent of someone in 1939 justifying the German invasion of Poland because Goebbels said Germans were being mistreated in Danzig.
        Who's to say what can happen when they use their own citizens as well as foreigners as human shields

        When they station troops in residential areas and firing weapons from there.

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        • #64
          The reactor buildings took damage. There is no excuse to attack a nuclear reactor.

          Why do Ukranians reactors need to be under Russian control? They were never militarized in the first place. Militarized nuclear facilities are like Hanford, where spent fuel can be processed to extract plutonium or like that Iranian mountain with centerfuges to enrich uranium. Power generation is not militarized.

          No window loop hole in Kyiv could hit a single Russian solder in Russia. As for Human shields, Ukraine is evacing everyone it can. Too bad Russia is attacking the refugees.

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          • #65
            I'm not worry about the building containing the reactor itself. Yards of concrete is going to laugh off everything the Russians BGs could throw at it. What I am concern about is the controls outside the reactor, that a false signal may interfere with reactor operations.
            Chimo

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            • #66
              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              Why do Ukranians reactors need to be under Russian control?
              Dirty bombs

              https://t.me/intelslava/21705

              The Russian Defense Ministry warns that the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and militants from the right-wing extremist Azov battalion are preparing a provocation with the possibility of radioactive contamination around Kharkiv.

              "The SBU and the militants of the Azov battalion are planning to blow up the reactor [at the Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology] and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of allegedly launching a missile attack on the experimental nuclear facility," the ministry said.
              https://t.me/intelslava/21834

              The Ukrainian Armed Forces struck at the substation and power lines supplying the Chernobyl nuclear power plant - Russian Defense Ministry.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                The reactor buildings took damage. There is no excuse to attack a nuclear reactor.
                https://t.me/asbmil/419

                Mar 04

                It's just the admin building that is on fire at the nuclear power plant as a result of shelling initiated by the Ukrainians — as they hid inside of the nuclear power plant when russians started closing in on them.
                https://t.me/asbmil/420

                Mar 04
                Spokesman of the press service for the nuclear power plant declares that there is no threat of radiation spread.

                Once again, Ukrainian officials are making up their own statistics and data-- to cause panic and call for a no-fly zone.

                npp.zp.ua/en/safety/arms radiation levels live -- from the facility itself. No evidence of raised levels. Live data from 4 mins ago.
                https://t.me/asbmil/422
                “The safety of the Nuclear plant is ensured.” — head of the Zaporozhie State Admin.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  As for Human shields, Ukraine is evacing everyone it can. Too bad Russia is attacking the refugees.
                  Yeah they are, only Ukranians allowed on the train and only women & children leave at the border. If you're not then sorry.

                  If it wasn't for the Russians it would not have been possible to evac thousands of stranded Indian students out of Sumy & Kharkov.

                  Russians were the ones who agreed to humanitarian corridors.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                    Yeah they are, only Ukranians allowed on the train and only women & children leave at the border. If you're not then sorry.

                    If it wasn't for the Russians it would not have been possible to evac thousands of stranded Indian students out of Sumy & Kharkov.

                    Russians were the ones who agreed to humanitarian corridors.
                    To be clear, the Russians are the ones who invaded, slaughtered thousands, and then demand credit for not slaughtering a particular small group of innocent civilians.
                    And, just to be clear, you think this a good thing, and want to be sure they get the credit they deserve, right?
                    Trust me?
                    I'm an economist!

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by DOR View Post

                      To be clear, the Russians are the ones who invaded, slaughtered thousands, and then demand credit for not slaughtering a particular small group of innocent civilians.
                      And, just to be clear, you think this a good thing, and want to be sure they get the credit they deserve, right?
                      I supported Afghanistan, Iraq, the only one on this board to push for Libya and advocated the same for Syria

                      I'm not the best one to ask about the morality of the invasion of Ukraine

                      This is what great powers do when their interests are threatened or when an opportunity arises

                      Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 22,, 21:37.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by DOR View Post

                        To be clear, the Russians are the ones who invaded, slaughtered thousands, and then demand credit for not slaughtering a particular small group of innocent civilians.
                        And, just to be clear, you think this a good thing, and want to be sure they get the credit they deserve, right?
                        Yes he does. Tells you something, doesn't it.

                        Some of us worked him out a while ago. This really is as much as he has to offer.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          Bullshit, you can't use a reactor to make dirty bombs.



                          More bullshit, you don't attack reactor complexes. Live rounds came within meters of the control building and physical reactor plants. Its war, you can't control where every bullet and shell lands and the risk even 1:1,000,000 is not worth the risk and violates every tenet of proportional response and discrimination required by the LOAC.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            Really? Ukrainian piloted planes are fair game under the GC. The Russians can well exercise hot intercept. That means it is perfectly legal for the Russians to shoot down Ukrainian piloted warplanes inside NATO airspace. What should our response be? Do we provide a safe haven from which the Ukrainians can conduct military operations ... which would make us legal combattants in this war ... and there is zero plausible deniability here.

                            It is NOT a good idea. The only way we can give Ukrainian warplanes is that we truck them to the border and they take over from there.
                            Additionally, just about any Warsaw Pact Era aircraft have been upgraded to NATO standard and won't work for the Ukrainians...especially the Polish MiG-29s. They have NATO avionics, weapons control equipment and shackles added for NATO standard weaponry. Plus a MiG-29 is lousy bomb truck which is what they need. Most of the damage is coming from missiles and long range fires, something the MiG-29s cannot response.
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Monash View Post


                              I would suggest that while the CIA is no doubt playing a role the lions share of the credit for tracking Russian deployments and intentions has to lie with other agencies, particularly the NRA, DIA and those branches of the military doing all the heavy lifting on real time communications interception. The CIA will be busy trying to lift Putin's skirt and see what's going on underneath.
                              You are correct on it not being just the CIA. I would say the work of the entire Director of Central Intelligence worked well with the over 20 separate intelligence organizations and provided excellent courses of action for the Administration to take. It's amazing how well the US government works when career professionals are allowed to do their jobs.
                              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                              Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                                https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/st...42116016128005

                                Not bombing nuclear facilites is a good idea so encouraging a ceasefire to avoid such an event is on face value obvious.

                                Is it basically the same with Tulsi above. Warzones in countries with bio labs is bad and she has a strong bias to speaking about that particular tail risk due to her world view.

                                Am i missing something important?
                                Her spouting Russian talking points is a disgrace for a current US Army Reserve lieutenant colonel. At the minimum she should have hers security clearance pulled. She is a classic example of an insider threat.
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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