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U.S. Response to Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

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  • statquo
    replied
    Not just Cult members but progressives on the left are saying the same thing, that the US should be spending money at home, that the US can’t be the worlds police force etc.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Monash View Post
    Should the Republicans win the Presidency after the next election whoever wins will almost certainly be 'beholden' to Trump and his MAGA crowd. That makes it almost certain likely there may be calls the US to stop supporting Ukraine (keenly egged on by Russia of course).
    Such calls are already going out by the Right, see previous posts in this thread.

    Originally posted by Monash View Post
    That said the best defense Ukraine probably has against that is continued success on the battlefield. I don't necessarily mean complete victory just enough forward momentum to make it clear Russia is on the back foot. Trump (the 'winner') has never wanted to associate himslef with 'loser's' and presumably neither will the next President. Hopefully that plus the advice of US military officials will be enough to persuade the new administration (if there is one) to stay the course.
    Nothing succeeds like success, that's for damn sure.

    The problem for Trump is that he worships Putin the "genius" (who almost certainly has kompromat on Trump) and also despises Ukraine for multiple reasons, starting with their refusal to knuckle under to Trump's demands for "favors" in exchange for U.S. military hardware. He also doesn't have much of an acquaintance with reality and will do whatever he fancies at a particular moment in time.

    Fortunately even a future non-Trump but still MAGAt president probably won't have the same wagonload of baggage that Trump does (or, at least one would hope so) and will continue U.S. support for Ukraine. Although whether its to the degree of enthusiasm that Joe Biden has shown is another story entirely.

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  • Monash
    replied
    Should the Republicans win the Presidency after the next election whoever wins will almost certainly be 'beholden' to Trump and his MAGA crowd. That makes it almost certain there may be calls for the US to stop supporting Ukraine (keenly egged on by Russia of course). That said the best defense Ukraine probably has against that is continued success on the battlefield. I don't necessarily mean complete victory just enough forward momentum to make it clear Russia is on the back foot. Trump (the 'winner') has never wanted to associate himself with 'loser's' and presumably neither will the next President. Hopefully that plus the advice of US military officials will be enough to persuade the new administration (if there is one) to stay the course.
    Last edited by Monash; 03 Oct 22,, 04:26.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    When warriors of the caliber of Mattis and McRaven or Votel and Allen publicly rebuke a sitting president for his contempt towards the military, we should take notice.



    I shared an answer earlier detailing how former President Trump has disparaged and mocked the military. One right wing ideologue responded to me and said:
    • “Pretty sure the same is said of many presidents I’ve served under… But cherry pick you may.”
    His comment has inspired me and “cherry pick I shall”.

    Military historians have said there is no precedent for a President to make such attacks on the military he commands.

    Trump’s contempt for the military has more impact than insulting a particular group of people. By allowing these statements to go unchallenged and condemned, they lay the groundwork to potentially affect the cohesion of the military. If the President can mock and ridicule the military, there are many who will accept that as permission to do the same. There will also be those in the military who take-on these attitudes. It lays the foundation for a creeping but potentially harmful impact on the cohesion of the military.

    Let’s look closely at how Trump views the military.

    Who can forget that “special moment” when Trump described a cemetery of dead Americans as suckers and losers for dying in war.
    • He canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, blaming rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. He was lying.
    • He did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.
    My kind of ex-president, bone spurs and all.

    Trump is contemptuous of patriotism, service and sacrifice. Remember his love tap towards John McCain?
    • “He’s not a war hero. I like people who weren’t captured.”
    As if Trump could understand what it means to be a war hero.

    I think, though, mocking a Gold Star family is an elegant touch.

    And, I particularly enjoy how he bragged on a morning radio show about avoiding the Vietnam draft, remarking that one of the show’s hosts who had gotten out of service by declaring he had a bad knee had done a “good job.”

    Trump has disparaged veterans who were wounded or captured or went missing in action for years. He has compared his avoiding getting a venereal disease to the experiences of a soldier, saying in 1993, “if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam. It’s called the dating game.”
    • Trump is on record saying he didn’t understand why the U.S. government spent so much effort to find missing soldiers who he believed had performed poorly and were caught. Trump told senior advisers that those who served in Vietnam were “losers” because they didn’t find a way to avoid service, a person familiar with the matter told The Washington Post.

    Trump showed his active contempt for the military in his relationships with his generals.
    • In a 2017 meeting at the Pentagon, he called his top generals “losers” and “a bunch of dopes and babies,” according to “A Very Stable Genius,” by Post reporters Philip Rucker and Carol D. Leonnig.
    • General Mattis is on record saying that “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us.” In response, Trump, who had once lavished praise on Mattis, tweeted: “I didn’t like his ‘leadership’ style or much else about him. . . . Glad he is gone!”

    There’s no place in American politics for this attitude towards the military.

    To allow it to go unchallenged, to not universally condemn it shows the rot seeping into elements of our nation.

    References
    1. Trump on defensive as critics seize on reports he insulted U.S. veterans
    2. Report: Trump disparaged US war dead as ‘losers,’ ‘suckers’
    3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...45f_story.html
    4. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...very-publicly/
    5. Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’
    6. Trump Has Mocked the U.S. Military His Whole Life
    7. Trump And The Military: What An Erratic Commander In Chief Leaves Behind
    8. Trump’s Contempt for the Military Is Overwhelming and Obvious
    9. Did Trump call US war dead “losers” and “suckers”? The controversy, explained.
    __________

    Still more reasons to breathe a sigh of relief that Donald Trump is not the CinC right now.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Well, of course. Trump has been a what is in it for me person all his life and I'm sure he would have been asking Zelensky just that question. Ukraine would have been screwed.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

    Thank god this isn't being dealt with by Trump and his repertoire of clowns.
    As if we needed another reminder.

    "Ukrainian-occupied territories...."

    Fucking Russian puppets. I wonder if their knees ever get sore.



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  • Monash
    replied
    He quote; 'didn’t have the necessary combat experience'! What? He didn't think Russia could utilize the services of a military trained doctor in a war zone?

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    US Army doctor and anesthesiologist charged with conspiring to provide US military medical records to Russian government

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/29/polit...rds/index.html



    A wife and husband from Maryland have been charged with conspiring to provide the Russian government with personal medical records from the US government and military, according to a newly unsealed federal indictment.

    Anna Gabrielian, an anesthesiologist practicing in Baltimore, along with her husband, Jamie Lee Henry, a major and doctor in the US Army, allegedly provided “individually identifiable health information,” which is protected under federal law, to an FBI undercover agent posing as a Russian government employee.

    Both Gabrielian and Henry were arrested Thursday morning, according to the US Attorney’s office in the District of Maryland. After appearing in court, they were released on home detention with 24/7 location monitoring. Gabrielian also has a $500,000 unsecured bond.

    According to the indictment, Gabrielian was contacted by the undercover agent – who claimed to be an employee of the Russian embassy – in August, after Gabrielian had reached out to the Russian embassy to offer her and her husband’s assistance to the Russian government several months earlier.

    CNN is reaching out to the defendants. No attorneys have been listed in court records.

    During a meeting with the undercover agent in a Baltimore hotel, according to the indictment, Gabrielian said she was “motivated by patriotism toward Russia” and wanted to provide assistance even if it meant risking jail time. She also allegedly told the undercover agent that her husband could provide information on how the US military sets up hospitals during war and on training provided to the Ukrainian military, and warned that any information they pulled needed to be “massively important” due to the risk of being uncovered.

    In a separate meeting, Henry claimed to have “looked into volunteering to join the Russian Army after the conflict in Ukraine began,” but didn’t have the necessary combat experience, according to the indictment. Henry has a “Secret” level security clearance, the indictment says.

    Gabrielian and Henry both suggested that they provide the undercover agent with medical information from members of the US military and their families from Fort Bragg, where Henry was stationed as a staff internist, as well as from the medical institution where Gabrielian worked in Baltimore, the indictment alleges.

    Henry, the indictment says, provided to the undercover agent during an August meeting the health records of a US Army officer, Department of Defense employee, and the spouses of three Army veterans, two of whom are deceased. The indictment also alleges that Gabrielian conspired to provide the medical information of “the spouse of a government employee and military veteran.”

    Gabrielian also made plans for her, her husband and their children to flee to Turkey and gave a cover story to the undercover agent to explain their communications, according to the indictment.

    “I don’t want to end in jail here with my kids being hostages over my head,” she allegedly told the undercover agent.

    In another meeting, Gabrielian allegedly told the undercover agent that her husband was a “coward” and was worried about violating HIPAA - the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

    She also recommended Henry read a book from the 1980s about how Russian spies were trained and recruited during the Soviet Union in order to prepare, according to the indictment.

    “Because it’s the mentality of sacrificing everything,” Gabrielian allegedly told the undercover agent about recommending the book, “and loyalty in you from day one. That’s not something you walked away from.”

    Henry told the undercover agent that if the US were to declare war against Russia, “at that point, I’ll have some ethical issues I have to work through,” according to the indictment.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________

    I assume she is a US citizen?

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Advanced anti-aircraft weapons head to Ukraine in 2 months

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon will deliver the first two advanced NASAMS anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine in the next two months, providing Kyiv with a weapon that it has pressed for since earlier this year.

    Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder told Pentagon reporters on Tuesday that six more of the Norwegian-developed weapons will be delivered in the future, as much as a year or two from now. Recent reports that some of the U.S.-provided NASAMS were already in Ukraine were not correct.

    The NASAMS will provide medium- to long-range defense against Russian missile attacks. Their impending delivery comes as Russia tries to rebound from recent combat losses and politically solidify gains by holding referendums in four occupied regions in the south and east.

    The Kremlin-orchestrated referendums, which have been dismissed as illegitimate by the U.S. and its Western allies, are expected to be used as a pretext for Moscow to annex those regions.

    Ryder said the U.S. has seen no major shifts in Russian forces aimed at bolstering or protecting the four areas, even as Moscow mobilizes more than a quarter million reservists to fight in Ukraine. He said the U.S. continues to see Russian troops trying to conduct offensive operations, but that Ukrainian forces are “successfully holding on.”

    Ryder also said that despite the ongoing threats from Russian leaders to use nuclear weapons to defend Russian territory — including the newly claimed areas — the U.S. has seen nothing that “would cause us to adjust our own nuclear posture at this time.”

    On funding, Ryder said that nearly $2.3 billion allocated to provide weapons and equipment to Ukraine will expire at the end of the fiscal year on Friday. That money is authorized by Congress to pay for equipment taken off Pentagon shelves and sent quickly to Ukraine.

    “I would highlight that it’s not the end of the fiscal year yet,” Ryder said. “So there’s still time potentially to employ that authorization.” He also noted that Congress is moving to approve additional funding for the next fiscal year, which also could be used.

    In other comments, Ryder said the U.S. now does confirm that Russia is using Iranian drones both for combat attacks and intelligence-gathering, and that reports that some have been shot down by Ukraine are “credible.” He declined to provide numbers.
    __________

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    U.S. Embassy in Moscow urges American citizens to leave Russia 'immediately'

    The U.S. Embassy in Moscow is urging American citizens residing in Russia to leave immediately amid Vladimir Putin’s escalation of the war in Ukraine.

    “U.S. citizens should not travel to Russia and those residing or traveling in Russia should depart Russia immediately while limited commercial travel options remain,” the embassy said in a security alert issued Tuesday.

    The alert comes just a week after Putin announced an escalation of Russia’s war in Ukraine on Sept. 21, when he partially mobilized the country’s reservists and hinted at resorting to nuclear warfare. Thousands of Russians have fled the country in recent days following Putin’s announcement.

    The embassy urged U.S. citizens to make independent arrangements “as soon as possible,” as commercial flight options are extremely limited but overland car and bus routes are still open. The embassy said it has limited options to help Americans in Russia, whose transportation options “may suddenly become even more limited.”

    The alert also warned Americans that Russia may refuse to acknowledge U.S. citizenship for dual nationals, try to prevent their departure from Russia, prevent access to consular assistance or even conscript dual nationals for military service. The embassy added that basic human rights such as the right to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression are not guaranteed in Russia.

    “Avoid all political or social protests and do not photograph security personnel at these events,” the embassy warned. “Russian authorities have arrested U.S. citizens who have participated in demonstrations.”
    _______

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by S2 View Post
    "Thank god this isn't being dealt with by Trump and his repertoire of clowns..."

    Please take your partisan shit elsewhere. I don't consider McMaster nor Mattis "clowns", as example. So it's a matter of debate but one not suited for here. All this has happened on another president's watch so your speculation about "what if" is beside the point.

    Go elsewhere with it, if need be.
    My fault in that I should have been more clear about some exceptions but it is well known that towards the end they were all gone and being replaced by, shall I say, less competent people. That was my point.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by S2 View Post
    "Thank god this isn't being dealt with by Trump and his repertoire of clowns..."

    Please take your partisan shit elsewhere. I don't consider McMaster nor Mattis "clowns", as example. So it's a matter of debate but one not suited for here. All this has happened on another president's watch so your speculation about "what if" is beside the point.

    Go elsewhere with it, if need be.
    I don't think he was referring to the adults that populated the first couple years of the Trump Administration as clowns. Rather people more like Christopher Miller, Kash Patel, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon etc.

    Recall that Mattis resigned in protest over Donald Trump actively undermining “an international order that is most conducive to our security, prosperity and values”

    Mattis’s letter – which was distributed to the press when he resigned – ends with a stunning rebuke of Trump:

    “Because you have the right to a secretary of defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position.”

    Translation: Mattis doesn’t agree with Trump’s foreign policy.

    Mattis explained which of his views aren’t “better aligned” with Trump.

    “While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies,” Mattis wrote.

    Translation: Mattis believes that Trump treats America’s closest allies with derision, which endangers America’s national security and its interests around the world.

    “Similarly,” Mattis wrote, “I believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries whose strategic interests are increasingly in tension with ours,” naming Russia and China in particular.

    Translation: Trump is weak and erratic in his policies towards America’s greatest rivals, including Russia and China.

    Mattis closed by saying: “My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues.”

    Translation: Trump has no idea what he’s doing.
    Trump of course cares nothing about any of that:

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    Anyone derisively referring to Mattis as "the world's most overrated General", and trying to claim credit for his "Mad Dog" nickname, clearly has his orange head jammed firmly up his ass and shouldn't be trusted with national command authority over so much as child's cap pistol, let alone being in charge of aiding another country being invaded by the Russians....especially not a country that he's already on record trying to shake down for "favors" in exchange for weaponry to defend themselves.

    So yeah, I think it's entirely correct, and not in the least bit partisan, to breathe a sigh of relief that Donald Trump is not president during this time and while blame can assigned to both Obama and Biden, there's still a heap of it that can accurately dumped on Trump, starting with his obsequious toadying up to Putin.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Moved previous 2 posts from the main Ukraine-Russia War thread

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  • S2
    replied
    "Thank god this isn't being dealt with by Trump and his repertoire of clowns..."

    Please take your partisan shit elsewhere. I don't consider McMaster nor Mattis "clowns", as example. So it's a matter of debate but one not suited for here. All this has happened on another president's watch so your speculation about "what if" is beside the point.

    Go elsewhere with it, if need be.

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by S2 View Post
    "I believe Stanislav Petrov's act of bravery wasn't valued by military high command. RVSN officers since the incident were carefully selected and brainwashed all these years..."

    Perhaps the 39th anniversary of this event, tomorrow on Sept. 26th, will provide the Russian command leadership an opportunity to further reflect upon the myriad errors of their ways. So typically Russian that a brilliant and astute decision is not celebrated.

    To include by the west.

    Jake Sullivan believes we've clearly communicated "...catastrophic consequences for Russia. The United States will respond decisively..." (5:06 mark). I trust "catastrophic" and "decisively" to have been privately elaborated in great detail based upon further Sullivan comments within the interview. Sullivan made plain that there are clear communication channels with the senior Russian leadership.

    It'll be a Russian decision from here, including whether there might need to be a change in the Russian NCA.
    Thank god this isn't being dealt with by Trump and his repertoire of clowns.

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