U.S. Response to Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

[astralis]

And just like clockwork, the Ukrainian game of pocketing the win and immediately applying political pressure/set expectations for more via media has started.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1705284842554839368

someone should let Budanov know that the last time his boss tried this, Biden wire brushed his face.

[TopHatter]

McCarthy vows to strip Ukraine money from Pentagon bill after Greene ‘no’ vote


Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) announced Friday that he will strip funding for Ukraine out of a Pentagon spending bill after Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) joined conservatives in blocking the legislation from advancing earlier this week.

McCarthy said he would remove the $300 million for Ukraine currently in the Pentagon appropriations bill and hold a separate vote on the funding.

“It would be out and voted on by itself,” McCarthy said when asked about the Ukraine aid in the Pentagon appropriations bill.

The Speaker’s announcement comes one day after a band of five conservatives opposed a procedural vote for the Pentagon appropriations bill, sinking the effort and preventing the legislation from moving forward. It was the second time this week that hard-liners blocked the funding bill from advancing.

Votes on rules — which govern debate for legislation — are normally partisan and predictable matters, with the majority supporting voting “yes” and the minority party voting “no.” It is very rare for rules to fail on the floor.

Greene, who has emerged as a close ally of McCarthy, was one of the Republicans who voted against the rule Thursday “because it funds the war in Ukraine.” It was a shift from her vote Tuesday, when the congresswoman supported the procedural vote to advance the Defense measure.

The rule failed for a second time on the same day that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky met with lawmakers in the Capitol.

The Pentagon funding bill includes $300 million “to provide assistance, including training; equipment; lethal assistance; logistics support, supplies and services; salaries and stipends; sustainment; and intelligence support to the military and national security forces of Ukraine, and to other forces or groups recognized by and under the authority of the Government of Ukraine, including governmental entities within Ukraine, engaged in resisting Russian aggression against Ukraine, for replacement of any weapons or articles provided to the Government of Ukraine from the inventory of the United States.”

Greene has come out against sending additional money to Ukraine. On Friday morning, she went live on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, and said she would support the measure if the Ukraine aid is taken out.

Following McCarthy’s announcement Friday, Greene said it was “frustrating” that it took leadership so long to strip out the money.

“This should have happened weeks ago,” Greene told The Hill in a statement. “I’ve made it loud and clear that I would not vote for a single penny of Ukraine funding. It’s frustrating to me things had to get to this level, that we had to waste an entire week when we could have been passing appropriations.

“Our defense appropriations bill should never be going to fund a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine, so this is a victory for common sense,” she later added. “I’m proud to have made it happen.”

The failed rule vote Thursday was a blow to McCarthy, who has sought to advance the appropriations process ahead of a Sept. 30 shutdown deadline — to no avail.

In addition to the two failed rule votes for the Pentagon appropriations bill, leadership scrapped plans to vote on a partisan continuing resolution to keep the government funded past Sept. 30 on Tuesday after a number of conservatives said they were against the proposal.

House GOP leadership sent members home Thursday night after no progress was made all week.
___________

So basically this lunatic is running the asylum now...How completely predictable.

[TopHatter]

"a small number" of ATACMS are going to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...raine-00117667

Finally!

I wonder if the Russian Black Sea Fleet being carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey (or do I mean scalped?) had any effect on the decision....

[astralis]

"a small number" of ATACMS are going to Ukraine.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...raine-00117667

[Albany Rifles]

Republicans in letter to White House vow to oppose further Ukraine aid


Republicans in a new letter to the White House are vowing to oppose further aid to Ukraine, asking questions about where the money’s going and whether Kyiv is making progress against Russia.

“The American people deserve to know what their money has gone to. How is the counteroffensive going? Are the Ukrainians any closer to victory than they were 6 months ago? What is our strategy, and what is the president’s exit plan? What does the administration define as victory in Ukraine?” reads the letter, with more than two dozen signatures from senators and members of Congress.

The lawmakers argue in the letter that it would be “an absurd abdication of congressional responsibility” to grant the White House request for additional aid without answers to the inquiries.

“For these reasons—and certainly until we receive answers to the questions above and others forthcoming—we oppose the additional expenditure for war in Ukraine included in your request.”

Republican Sens. JD Vance (Ohio), Tommy Tuberville (Ala.), Rand Paul (Ky.) and Mike Braun (Ind.) are among the signatures, as are GOP Reps. Chip Roy (Texas), Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Clay Higgins (La.) and Byron Donalds (Fla.).

“Yesterday at a classified briefing over Ukraine, it became clear that America is being asked to fund an indefinite conflict with unlimited resources. Enough is enough. To these and future requests, my colleagues and I say: NO,” Vance wrote on X, sharing the letter.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is returning to Washington on Thursday, less than a year after his last visit to the U.S. capital, and is expected to meet with congressional leadership and some lawmakers during his visit.

President Biden has requested $24 billion in additional funding for Ukraine as the country continues to fend of Russian aggression, a year-and-a-half after Moscow invaded its neighbor.

“The vast majority of Congress remains unaware of how much the United States has spent to date in total on this conflict, information which is necessary for Congress to prudently exercise its appropriations power. It is difficult to envision a benign explanation for this lack of clarity,” the lawmakers’ letter reads.
______

The usual Guardians Of Putin...what a shock.

Ahhh...the Klan Caucus has been heard from!

[Albany Rifles]

Can be fired in Korea, defense of Philippines and hey we have even been shooting MLRS off the flight decks of Navy ships.

It will be a few years before PrSM. is fully integrated and in sufficent stock to make ATACMs moot. S lets keep what we have.

You think the USMC doesn't have a use for ATACMS because of range but should have kept shorter range M777s?

Beat me to it, Gunny

[Bigfella]

"The American people deserve to know what their money has gone to. How is the counteroffensive going?" Perhaps they could just read a newspaper or watch television. Just saying.

Given who put them in Congress the former is wildly unlikely and the latter won't be an information source of any worth. GIGO.

[Gun Grape]

Not sure how useful the ATACMS would be in the pacific littoral. While they outrange normal MLRS rounds they are not really capable of hitting stuff very far away. It's also being phased on in favor of the PrSM which has a third again longer range. The Army missile was never designed to shoot from Island to Island so its utility in the pacific is dubious. If anything I think the USMC is going to regret giving up their M1A1FEP's and M777's that would have an impact on the tactical fight.

Can be fired in Korea, defense of Philippines and hey we have even been shooting MLRS off the flight decks of Navy ships.

It will be a few years before PrSM. is fully integrated and in sufficent stock to make ATACMs moot. S lets keep what we have.

You think the USMC doesn't have a use for ATACMS because of range but should have kept shorter range M777s?

[Monash]

"The American people deserve to know what their money has gone to. How is the counteroffensive going?" Perhaps they could just read a newspaper or watch television. Just saying.

[TopHatter]

Republicans in letter to White House vow to oppose further Ukraine aid


Republicans in a new letter to the White House are vowing to oppose further aid to Ukraine, asking questions about where the money’s going and whether Kyiv is making progress against Russia.

“The American people deserve to know what their money has gone to. How is the counteroffensive going? Are the Ukrainians any closer to victory than they were 6 months ago? What is our strategy, and what is the president’s exit plan? What does the administration define as victory in Ukraine?” reads the letter, with more than two dozen signatures from senators and members of Congress.

The lawmakers argue in the letter that it would be “an absurd abdication of congressional responsibility” to grant the White House request for additional aid without answers to the inquiries.

“For these reasons—and certainly until we receive answers to the questions above and others forthcoming—we oppose the additional expenditure for war in Ukraine included in your request.”

Republican Sens. JD Vance (Ohio), Tommy Tuberville (Ala.), Rand Paul (Ky.) and Mike Braun (Ind.) are among the signatures, as are GOP Reps. Chip Roy (Texas), Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Clay Higgins (La.) and Byron Donalds (Fla.).

“Yesterday at a classified briefing over Ukraine, it became clear that America is being asked to fund an indefinite conflict with unlimited resources. Enough is enough. To these and future requests, my colleagues and I say: NO,” Vance wrote on X, sharing the letter.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is returning to Washington on Thursday, less than a year after his last visit to the U.S. capital, and is expected to meet with congressional leadership and some lawmakers during his visit.

President Biden has requested $24 billion in additional funding for Ukraine as the country continues to fend of Russian aggression, a year-and-a-half after Moscow invaded its neighbor.

“The vast majority of Congress remains unaware of how much the United States has spent to date in total on this conflict, information which is necessary for Congress to prudently exercise its appropriations power. It is difficult to envision a benign explanation for this lack of clarity,” the lawmakers’ letter reads.
______

The usual Guardians Of Putin...what a shock.

[TopHatter]

US plans $325 million Ukraine aid announcement for Zelenskiy visit, official says


Ukraine receives shipment of U.S. military aid at Boryspil airport

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden plans to announce a $325 million military aid package for Ukraine on Thursday to coincide with a visit to Washington by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, a U.S. official said on Wednesday on condition of anonymity.

The weapons aid package was expected to include the second tranche of cluster munitions fired by a 155 millimeter Howitzer cannon, the U.S official said.

Other new weapons for Ukraine were expected to be announced around the time of Biden's meeting with Zelenskiy, but not ATACMS missiles which have been under discussion, the U.S. official said.

Ukraine got an initial tranche of M864 155 millimeter artillery rounds in July 2023. The unguided artillery shells are fired from NATO standard 155 cannons, have a maximum range of 18 miles (29 km) and carry up to 72 dual-purpose improved conventional munition (DPICM) M42 and M46 bomblets.

Sending 155 millimeter artillery rounds with cluster munitions has eased the drain on standard "unitary" 155 millimeter shells, which the U.S. also plans to include in this shipment.

In addition, Washington plans to send more Avenger short-range air defense systems that use Stinger missiles, made by RTX Corp, formerly Raytheon, the official said.

Included in the planned aid package for Ukraine are TOW and AT4 anti-tank weapons, Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rockets for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) and Javelin anti-tank missiles made by a joint venture between Lockheed and RTX Corp, along with other equipment.

The package was still being finalized and could change, the official said.

The package is made possible by utilizing Presidential Drawdown Authority, which authorizes Biden to transfer articles and services from U.S. stocks without congressional approval during an emergency. The material will come from U.S. excess inventory.

Zelenskiy is scheduled to visit Capitol Hill on Thursday morning to meet lawmakers before holding White House talks with Biden later on Thursday.

Since the Russian invasion in February 2022 the U.S. has sent more than $40 billion worth of security assistance to Ukraine.
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[Monash]

Not sure how useful the ATACMS would be in the pacific littoral. While they outrange normal MLRS rounds they are not really capable of hitting stuff very far away. It's also being phased on in favor of the PrSM which has a third again longer range. The Army missile was never designed to shoot from Island to Island so its utility in the pacific is dubious. If anything I think the USMC is going to regret giving up their M1A1FEP's and M777's that would have an impact on the tactical fight.

Z, I don't see Marines being 'active' in an offensive sense in the event of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan in the initial stages of the war (assuming the US is drawn into it). Defensively? Yes definitely. Offensively? No. This is because the US would have to do a lot of preparatory work prior to landing ground forces in Taiwan. Which means the Corps would initially be charged with holding onto/resisting occupation of key US bases in the South China Sea region and deploying forwards into strategically important/threatened allied States like the Philippines in order to 'bolt the door' against China first. Then and only then would the US start preparing for large scale offensive operations. And that I believe would require some degree of air and naval superiority over South China Sea before it could be launched.

Assuming the above is true? HIMARS land attack missiles etc won't necessarily be the at the top of the Corps 'must have' list unless the Chinese have got boots on the ground first on one or more of the locations they've been tasked with holding prior to going on the offensive, assuming some kind of large scale ground offensive even ends up being required. The thing is if the US achieves both naval and air superiority, even on a limited basis over the approaches to Taiwan then China has lost the war anyway. The US would be loath to get into any kind of major ground war with China if it could at all be avoided.

[zraver]

Keep in mind the Marines new doctrine could really place a dependence on those same ATACMs some want to send, especially in Pacific littoral operations.

Not sure how useful the ATACMS would be in the pacific littoral. While they outrange normal MLRS rounds they are not really capable of hitting stuff very far away. It's also being phased on in favor of the PrSM which has a third again longer range. The Army missile was never designed to shoot from Island to Island so its utility in the pacific is dubious. If anything I think the USMC is going to regret giving up their M1A1FEP's and M777's that would have an impact on the tactical fight.

[Officer of Engineers]

I don't get this. If you are providing them with all the weapons, equipment, money and recently even training they need to fight and win, then you most definitely have a say. You cannot tell them not to fight for their own country but you can decide on what objectives you feel are practical and feasible and you will help them achieve and what you will not.

There are two unknown answers to what kind of say we're allowed to have. The Ukrainian populace will to fight and the Russian populace will to fight. If they're determined to fight, they will fight with knives and clubs if need be. The Ukrainians could very well launch insurgencies if conventional support dries up.

I was hoping the recent counteroffensive would have had a lot more effect than it did. But despite encouraging signs and some victories the frontlines do not seem to have moved a great deal.

We've wargamed it out with the Ukrainians but the Russians also did their wargames and determined a more robust defence. We and the Ukrainians under-estimated the Russian populace will to fight.

[Firestorm]

That's for Kiev to decide and we have no say whatsoever. From what we learned of their plans, they're willing to trade Crimea for NATO membership. That in itself would make the Russian Navy stronger.

I don't get this. If you are providing them with all the weapons, equipment, money and recently even training they need to fight and win, then you most definitely have a say. You cannot tell them not to fight for their own country but you can decide on what objectives you feel are practical and feasible and you will help them achieve and what you will not.

I was hoping the recent counteroffensive would have had a lot more effect than it did. But despite encouraging signs and some victories the frontlines do not seem to have moved a great deal.