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U.S. Response to Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

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  • In 2019 and again this year, Congress has voted overwhelmingly to endorse American participation in NATO. Here's a list of those who voted against this resolution this year, and where indicated, also voted against NATO in 2019.

    It should surprise no one except the voters that each and every one is a GOPer.
    Anytime any one of these people even hints at being a supporter of "the troops," or even of American defense, please correct that misrepresentation.


    Alderholt (AL)
    Allen (GA) – twice
    Amash (MI)
    Biggs (AZ) – twice
    Babin (TX)
    Bishop (NC)
    Boebert (CO)
    Buck (CO)
    Burchett (TN) – twice
    Cammack (FL)
    Carter (TX)
    Cawthorn (NC)
    Cline (VA) – twice
    Cloud (TX)
    Clyde (GA)
    Davidson (OH)
    DesJarlais (TN) – twice
    Donalds (FL)
    Estes (KS) – twice
    Fulcher (ID) – twice
    Gaetz (FL) – twice
    Gohmert (TX) – twice
    Good (VA)
    Gooden (TX)
    Gosar (AZ) – twice
    Granger (TX)
    Green (TN)
    Greene (GA)
    Grifith (VA)
    Harris (MD) – twice
    Harshbarger (TN)
    Hern (OK)
    Herrell (NM)
    Hice (GA) – twice
    Higgins (LA)
    Hollingsworth – twice
    Jordoan (OH) – twice
    Keller (PA)
    LaMalfa (CA)
    Lesko (AZ)
    Long (MO)
    Loudermilk (GA)
    Massie (KY) – twice
    Mast (FL)
    Miller (IL)
    McClintock (CA)
    Meadows (NC)
    Moolenaar (MI)
    Mullin (OK)
    Murphy (NC)
    Nehls (TX)
    Norman (SC)
    Perry (PA) – twice
    Posey (FL)
    Rose (TN) – twice
    Rosendale (MT)
    Roy (TX) – twice
    Sessions (TX)
    Smith (MO)
    Smith (NJ)
    Steube (FL) – twice
    Tiffany (WI)
    Van Drew (NJ)
    Walberg (M)
    Weber (TX) – twice
    Webster (FL)
    Wenstrup (OH)
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DOR View Post

      In 2019 and again this year, Congress has voted overwhelmingly to endorse American participation in NATO. Here's a list of those who voted against this resolution this year, and where indicated, also voted against NATO in 2019.

      It should surprise no one except the voters that each and every one is a GOPer.
      Anytime any one of these people even hints at being a supporter of "the troops," or even of American defense, please correct that misrepresentation.


      Alderholt (AL)
      Allen (GA) – twice
      Amash (MI)
      Biggs (AZ) – twice
      Babin (TX)
      Bishop (NC)
      Boebert (CO)
      Buck (CO)
      Burchett (TN) – twice
      Cammack (FL)
      Carter (TX)
      Cawthorn (NC)
      Cline (VA) – twice
      Cloud (TX)
      Clyde (GA)
      Davidson (OH)
      DesJarlais (TN) – twice
      Donalds (FL)
      Estes (KS) – twice
      Fulcher (ID) – twice
      Gaetz (FL) – twice
      Gohmert (TX) – twice
      Good (VA)
      Gooden (TX)
      Gosar (AZ) – twice
      Granger (TX)
      Green (TN)
      Greene (GA)
      Grifith (VA)
      Harris (MD) – twice
      Harshbarger (TN)
      Hern (OK)
      Herrell (NM)
      Hice (GA) – twice
      Higgins (LA)
      Hollingsworth – twice
      Jordoan (OH) – twice
      Keller (PA)
      LaMalfa (CA)
      Lesko (AZ)
      Long (MO)
      Loudermilk (GA)
      Massie (KY) – twice
      Mast (FL)
      Miller (IL)
      McClintock (CA)
      Meadows (NC)
      Moolenaar (MI)
      Mullin (OK)
      Murphy (NC)
      Nehls (TX)
      Norman (SC)
      Perry (PA) – twice
      Posey (FL)
      Rose (TN) – twice
      Rosendale (MT)
      Roy (TX) – twice
      Sessions (TX)
      Smith (MO)
      Smith (NJ)
      Steube (FL) – twice
      Tiffany (WI)
      Van Drew (NJ)
      Walberg (M)
      Weber (TX) – twice
      Webster (FL)
      Wenstrup (OH)
      In my book,,, traitors each and every one

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

        in my book,,, traitors each and every one
        again ?!?
        Trust me?
        I'm an economist!

        Comment


        • How Russian Media Uses Fox News to Make Its Case

          The conservative network has appeared hundreds of times in Russian media.

          As Western leaders introduced sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Ukraine, Tucker Carlson, the Fox News host, said seizing personal property from Russian oligarchs went too far.

          “No American government had ever done anything like that before,” he said.


          While the segment was aimed at Fox News’s conservative audience, it found another audience in Russia. The argument was parroted beat by beat by RIA Novosti, a Russian state news agency, which wrote that “the average U.S. citizen is simply horrified by what is happening.”

          The narratives advanced by the Kremlin and by parts of conservative American media have converged in recent months, reinforcing and feeding each other. Along the way, Russian media has increasingly seized on Fox News’s prime-time segments, its opinion pieces and even the network’s active online comments section — all of which often find fault with the Biden administration — to paint a critical portrait of the United States and depict America’s foreign policy as a threat to Russia’s interests. Mr. Carlson was a frequent reference for Russian media, but other Fox News personalities — and the occasional news update from the network — were also included.

          Sergey Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, who has made several false claims about the war — including that Russia never attacked Ukraine — singled out Fox News for praise last month.

          “We understood long ago that there is no such thing as an independent Western media,” Mr. Lavrov told the state television station RT, adding that “only Fox News is trying to present some alternative point of view.”

          Mentions of Fox News in Russian-language media grew 217 percent during the first quarter of this year compared with the final quarter of last year, as news coverage of Ukraine increased, according to an analysis by Zignal Labs, a media tracking company that reviewed social media posts, broadcast media and online websites. CNN, which has about three times the global viewership of Fox News, according to the tracking company Similarweb, was mentioned more often but grew less, by 71 percent.


          To better understand Fox News’s presence in Russian state media, The New York Times reviewed nearly 500 Russian-language articles mentioning Fox News between July and late March, sourced from the two largest state news agencies in the country — RIA Novosti and TASS — along with dozens of articles from other Russian-language media.

          Here are four ways Russian media has used Fox News to bolster the government’s narrative about the war.

          1. Blaming NATO expansion

          https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...short-640w.mp4
          U.S. Colonel: “The first thing we must do is accept Putin's point of view”

          “We should acknowledge that. Stop pretending that’s a non-issue.”

          “Нам нужно это признать. Прекратить притворяться, словно это не проблема”, - завил он в эфире Fox News.
          An article on the Russian-language news site Tsargrad featured content from a Fox News segment.

          The echoing narratives were clear from the eve of the invasion. Mr. Putin warned that he would use “military technical measures” if threatened by NATO.

          When Douglas Macgregor, a retired Army colonel, repeated Russia’s argument on Mr. Carlson’s show, it didn’t take long for Russian news media to cite him.

          “He pointed out that Russia does not want to see American and NATO troops near its borders, just like the U.S. wouldn’t want to see Russian troops in Cuba,” said one article from Tsargrad, a pro-Putin Russian television channel. “This is a perfectly logical position.”

          Tsargrad was started in 2015 with help from John Hanick, a former Fox News producer. Mr. Hanick was charged last month with violating U.S. sanctions. Federal prosecutors accused him of helping a Russian oligarch spread “destabilizing messages.”

          2. Buttressing conspiracy theories

          https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...uland-640w.mp4
          The unsupported idea that the United States was developing bioweapons in Ukraine has been nurtured for years in Russia. It found new resonance during the invasion of Ukraine.

          After a Senate hearing on the matter, in which Victoria Nuland, an under secretary of state, confirmed the existence of biolabs in Ukraine, Mr. Carlson used his show to suggest that the U.S. government was being untruthful about conducting bioweapons work in the country. Russian media seized on the segment.

          “The U.S. baselessly accused Russia of spreading disinformation about biolabs in Ukraine because they later actually confirmed their existence, TV presenter Tucker Carlson told Fox News,” Radio Sputnik wrote in an article summarizing Mr. Carlson’s lengthy segment for a Russian audience.

          3. Questioning the West’s goals

          https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...short-640w.mp4
          Interviews with pundits and politicians were also used to undermine the West’s support of Ukraine. Joe Kent, a Republican candidate for the House from Washington State, said on Fox News that the West’s support of Ukraine was killing people, because the support was giving Ukraine an incentive not to agree to a peace deal with Russia.

          TASS quickly repeated his criticisms.

          “According to the Republican, whose candidacy was supported by former U.S. leader Donald Trump, the escalation in Ukraine is ‘a great way to divert attention from the political crisis’ within the United States,” the article said.

          4. Criticizing President Biden

          https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...nergy-640w.mp4
          Russian media frequently highlighted stories from Fox News that were critical of President Biden.

          Nearly 400 Russian-language stories mentioned Fox News the week that Mr. Biden directed an under-the-breath expletive at Peter Doocy, a Fox News reporter, according to Zignal Labs. The exchange was repeated for weeks in stories criticizing the president’s fitness for the job.

          As the invasion began, attention shifted to questioning Mr. Biden’s motives. One article by Prime, a Russian news agency, detailed Mr. Carlson’s argument that Mr. Biden had encouraged the conflict to make “fossil fuels unaffordable for the average person and that way, people would have no choice but to switch” to renewable energy.

          “The broadcaster said such reforms would jeopardize American industry, impoverish entire cities and make the United States dependent on Chinese solar panels,” the article said.

          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Comment


          • Originally posted by statquo View Post
            How Russian Media Uses Fox News to Make Its Case

            The conservative network has appeared hundreds of times in Russian media.

            Here are four ways Russian media has used Fox News to bolster the government's narrative about the war.

            1. Blaming NATO expansion

            2. Buttressing conspiracy theories

            3. Questioning the West's goals

            4. Criticizing President Biden
            So, Fox is basically parroting Trump's talking points...to the benefit of Russia. As they've done for years.

            Anybody still want to question whether or not Trump and the American Right are firmly in bed with Russia? Was it bOtH sIdEs that voted against NATO or is there a discernible pattern here?
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • On the other hand, only Biden called the Russian invasion a genocide. Whether it is or not is not point. My point is that Genocide has legal obligations under UN Chapter 7, ie war. Biden's Staff immediately backpedal saying that Genocide is not the Official US position on the invasion. Biden is as much of a slave to his emotions as is Trump.
              Chimo

              Comment


              • Meanwhile Noam Chomsky is saying Ukraine should settle with Russia per the Jerusalem Times. Pretty sure he is not a fan of anything Trump.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  Meanwhile Noam Chomsky is saying Ukraine should settle with Russia per the Jerusalem Times. Pretty sure he is not a fan of anything Trump.
                  Fuck me Z, for an obviously intelligent bloke you do say some moron level stuff at times. I mean really fucking stupid. Do you even think about this stuff before you hit 'post'?

                  Please tell me you know how dumb this statement is. Please tell me that you understand that fuckwits on the right and left can come to the same dumbfuck conclusions for different reasons.

                  You can't really believe you have a point here. Surely.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

                    Fuck me Z, for an obviously intelligent bloke you do say some moron level stuff at times. I mean really fucking stupid. Do you even think about this stuff before you hit 'post'?

                    Please tell me you know how dumb this statement is. Please tell me that you understand that fuckwits on the right and left can come to the same dumbfuck conclusions for different reasons.

                    You can't really believe you have a point here. Surely.
                    Oh c'mon, he's got first-hand knowledge of Russian nuclear weapons deployments, surely that statement is far more meaningful than you or I can discern.
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      Meanwhile Noam Chomsky is saying Ukraine should settle with Russia per the Jerusalem Times. Pretty sure he is not a fan of anything Trump.
                      OK I read the article. Here's a quote from Chromsky ;

                      One option is to pursue the policy we are now following… to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. And yes, we can pursue that policy with the possibility of nuclear war. Or we can face the reality that the only alternative is a diplomatic settlement, which will be ugly – it will give Putin and his narrow circle an escape hatch,” Chomsky said.

                      “We know the basic framework is neutralization of Ukraine, some kind of accommodation for the Donbas region, with a high level of autonomy, maybe within some federal structure in Ukraine, and recognizing that, like it or not, Crimea is not on the table,” continued Chomsky. “You may not like it, you may not like the fact that there’s a hurricane coming tomorrow, but you can’t stop it by saying, ‘I don’t like hurricanes’ or ‘I don’t recognize hurricanes.
                      ’”

                      Its hardly a ringing endorsement of appeasement. He's calling for what most Western politicians have been calling for since the war began i.e. a diplomatic settlement. And yes such a settlement will have to include a face saving 'win' for Putin (otherwise there won't be a settlement) and at least some of the options he listed will would need to be included in that settlement. So despite being as a prominent 'leftist" and notwithstanding whatever other lunatic pronouncements Chromsky may have made in the past this time around he's pretty much singing from the same songbook as most western political leaders.

                      That being the case I'm not sure how his comments are particularity relevant.
                      Last edited by Monash; 30 Apr 22,, 02:30.
                      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                      Comment


                      • TH has moved from Trump/ Fox, to GoP, to all conservatives must be lapdogs of Putin because Russian media is using clips from Fox that basically say the same thing as a noted leftist who is definitely not anywhere on the Trump,Fox, GoP or conservative spectrum.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          TH has moved from Trump/ Fox, to GoP, to all conservatives must be lapdogs of Putin because Russian media is using clips from Fox that basically say the same thing as a noted leftist who is definitely not anywhere on the Trump,Fox, GoP or conservative spectrum.
                          So your argument is that conservatives are on the same level as a guy who supported the Khmer rouge, attacked people who tried to expose their mass murder while it was going on and will reliably defend/take the side of/obfuscate on behalf of virtually any anti-Western dictator or regime in existence.

                          OK, I can accept that. I have LONG thought Chomsky is utter filth and essentially an intellectual cancer. That seems a fair description Trump, Fox and the sort of conservatives who support Putin....though without the 'intellectual' bit.

                          LIke I said Z, for a smart bloke you really do push some moron level arguments. How does the existence of fuckwit left wingers who shill for Puting in any way impact the existence of fuckwit right wingers who shill for Putin...other than maybe you voted for one or more the the right wing ones. Maybe this shit gets you 'likes' on big forums full of Trumpers, but here it just makes you look dumb. You aren't dumb, so I find myself wondering why you are acting the part.
                          sigpic

                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                          Comment


                          • BF, not defending Carlson, stopped even trying to listen too him or Fox et al years ago. My point was TH taking a guy on the 4th most popular news network (#1 on cable 4th overall) to label all conservatives is the moron argument. Conservatives overwhelmingly support Ukraine. If you'll notice I generally didn't say shit when he was going after Carlison, my beef is now to TH it's all conservatives
                            https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...on-of-ukraine/
                            Last edited by zraver; 18 Apr 22,, 13:17.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              LIke I said Z, for a smart bloke you really do push some moron level arguments. How does the existence of fuckwit left wingers who shill for Puting in any way impact the existence of fuckwit right wingers who shill for Putin...other than maybe you voted for one or more the the right wing ones. Maybe this shit gets you 'likes' on big forums full of Trumpers, but here it just makes you look dumb. You aren't dumb, so I find myself wondering why you are acting the part.
                              It's all part of that usual bOtH sIdEs script of false equivalencies, we've seen it before, we'll probably always see it. Pay it no mind.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                BF, not defending Carlson, stopped even trying to listen too him or Fox et al years ago. My point was TH taking a guy on the 4th most popular news network (#1 on cable 4th overall) to label all conservatives is the moron argument. Conservatives overwhelmingly support Ukraine. If you'll notice I generally didn't say shit when he was going after Carlison, my beef is now to TH it's all conservatives
                                https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...on-of-ukraine/
                                OK, so if I understand this correctly you have confused TH saying 'all conservatives' (according to you) with TH saying 'ONLY conservatives'. Because that is the only context in which the Chomsky reference makes any sense.

                                Do you get why I find your original post & ongoing defence so inexplicable? If you think TH is being unfair to conservatives just make that point. All you've done is remind us that there are conservatives who are as bad as Chomsky & his followers. Of course, they haven't elected him to congress or the Presidency, so maybe not quite as bad.
                                sigpic

                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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