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  • Originally posted by Monash View Post

    Well by my count Russia still has three or four modern guided missile frigates out there to 'spin' into into finial victory plus six or seven larger landing ships. I'm more than happy to see all of those turned into artificial reefs/marine parks first.
    I'm willing to bet that Russia is treating them like their A-50 Mainstays: Just don't let them deploy at all.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rj1 View Post
      In light of letter b, wasn't Afghanistan done through NATO?
      Al Qadea, through Afghanistan, launched an attack on the US, invoking Article 5. Afghanistan, then became a legitimate NATO mission.

      Chimo

      Comment


      • How long before what's left of the men of the Black Sea "Fleet" start to find themselves transfered to the infantry?...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

          ON NO.....anyway....
          Don't we have a few we could lend them and really screw them up?

          Save us the cost of disposing them. Target practice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

            Don't we have a few we could lend them and really screw them up?

            Save us the cost of disposing them. Target practice.
            I'd be glad to give them ALL our LCS...aka Little Crappy Ships!
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment



            • Video shot from the Russian ship Caesar Kunikov on the drone attack. Couple of thoughts. Poor muzzle discipline. No firing from stabilized mounts. No night vision and to compensate insufficient illumination. Passing through a door which should be dogged down. And make sure you have a GoPro!!!

              Video ends with the 2nd explosion.


              https://x.com/Tendar/status/1765376298736586834?s=20
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                Video shot from the Russian ship Caesar Kunikov on the drone attack. Couple of thoughts. Poor muzzle discipline. No firing from stabilized mounts. No night vision and to compensate insufficient illumination. Passing through a door which should be dogged down. And make sure you have a GoPro!!!

                Video ends with the 2nd explosion.


                https://x.com/Tendar/status/1765376298736586834?s=20
                Holy crap that was terrifying...Just wish there was audio too.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • Ukrainian attacks increasingly sap the power of Russia's Black Sea fleet


                  FILE - Russian Black Sea fleet ships are anchored in one of the bays of Sevastopol, Crimea, March 31, 2014. Successful Ukrainian drone and missile strikes have provided a major morale boost for Kyiv at a time when its undermanned and under-gunned forces are facing Russian attacks along the more than 1,000-kilometer front line. Challenging Russia’s naval superiority also has helped create more favorable conditions for Ukrainian grain exports and other shipments from the country’s Black Sea ports.


                  FILE - In this photo taken from video released by Russian Defense Ministry Press Service on Jan. 5, 2024, Russian soldiers fire from aboard a Ka-27 helicopter of the Russian Black Sea Fleet during a patrol the Black Sea.


                  FILE - In this undated photo provided by Ministry of Digital Transformation of Ukraine, a Magura V5 (maritime autonomous guard unmanned robotic apparatus V-type), Ukrainian multi-purpose unmanned surface boat capable of performing various tasks, is seen in Ukraine. Uncrewed, remote-controlled boats have been around since the end of World War II. Late last century, technological innovations broadened their potential uses. Lethal, advanced sea drones developed and deployed by Ukraine in its war with Russia have opened a new chapter in that story.


                  FILE - In this photo released by the Russian Defense Ministry Press Service released on June 19, 2022, the Russian frigate of the Black Sea Fleet from the Black Sea launches a Caliber cruise missile at designated ground targets on a mission at an undisclosed location in Ukraine.


                  FILE - In this photo released by Russian Defense Ministry Press Service on Feb. 10, 2022, the Russian navy's amphibious assault ship Kaliningrad sails into the Sevastopol harbor in Crimea.


                  FILE - Russian Black Sea fleet Missile Cruiser "Moskva" is anchored in one of the bays of Sevastopol, Crimea, March 31, 2014.

                  Ukrainian sea drones reportedly sank another Russian warship in the Black Sea on Tuesday, the latest in a series of strikes that has crippled Moscow’s naval capability and limited its operations with the war now in its third year.

                  Successful Ukrainian drone and missile strikes have provided a major morale boost for Kyiv at a time when its undermanned and under-gunned forces are facing Russian attacks along the more than 1,000-kilometer (600-mile) front line.

                  Challenging Russia’s naval superiority also has helped create more favorable conditions for Ukrainian grain exports and other shipments from the country’s Black Sea ports.

                  Here's a look at recent Ukrainian attacks against Russian naval assets and their consequences.

                  RELENTLESS STRIKES

                  In the latest reported strike, Ukrainian naval drones attacked the Sergei Kotov patrol ship near the Kerch Strait, which links the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov, according to the Ukraine's military intelligence agency. The strike, which couldn't be independently verified, killed seven members of the Russian crew and injured six others, while 52 were rescued, the agency said.

                  The Russian Defense Ministry didn’t comment on the claim, but some Russian military bloggers confirmed the ship's loss and said its crew had been rescued.

                  The strike, if verified, would mark the latest successful use of Ukraine's domestically produced Magura drones, the agile uncrewed boats that have become the Russian navy's nemesis. Just last month, drones sank Russia's Caesar Kunikov amphibious landing ship and Ivanovets missile corvette. The Russian military hasn’t acknowledged those losses, either, but they have been reported by Russian military bloggers and some media.

                  In another attack in late December, Ukraine said it destroyed the Novocherkassk landing vessel in Crimea’s port of Feodosia with long-range cruise missiles. The Russian Defense Ministry said the ship was damaged in the attack, but Russian war bloggers said it was lost.

                  The Ukrainian military also has launched a series of persistent cruise missile and drone strikes on Russian radar facilities, air defense assets and air bases in Crimea, a region of Ukraine that Russia annexed in 2014. Increasing the pain for Moscow, Ukrainian troops also downed two Russian early warning and control aircraft over the Sea of Azov in January and February, depriving the Russian military of some of its most precious intelligence-gathering assets.

                  The strikes followed other highly efficient Ukrainian attacks earlier in the war, including the April 2022 sinking of the Black Sea fleet’s flagship missile cruiser, the Moskva, and a missile strike last September on the fleet’s headquarters in the port of Sevastopol.

                  UKRAINE'S DEADLY WEAPONS

                  The smart use of remote-controlled drone boats laden with explosives has allowed Ukraine to tip the scales of naval warfare in its favor despite Russia's massive superiority in firepower. The Magura drones are equipped with advanced GPS and cameras, and have a low radar signature that makes them hard to detect.

                  Its latest version, the Magura V5, is 5.5 meters (18 feet) long, weighs up to 1,000 kilograms (2,200 pounds) and has a range of up to 800 kilometers (500 miles), 60 hours of battery life, and a 200-kilogram (440-pound) payload, according to Ukrainian authorities. It also beams live video to operators.

                  Ukraine also has relied on cruise missiles provided by the U.K. and France for striking Russian assets in Crimea. The missiles — produced jointly by Britain and France and called Storm Shadow by the U.K. and SCALP-EG by France — are launched from Ukraine's Soviet-era warplanes and have a range of more than 250 kilometers (155 miles).

                  Western officials praise the efficiency of the Ukrainian attacks, noting that Kyiv has smartly used its limited resources to defeat far stronger Russian forces and destroy about 20% of the Black Sea fleet, effectively blunting Moscow’s naval dominance.

                  ENDING THE RUSSIAN BLOCKADE

                  The successful strikes on Russian naval assets have allowed Ukraine to increase its food and other Black Sea exports despite Russia’s withdrawal last summer from a deal that guaranteed safe shipment of Ukrainian grain.

                  Moscow’s pullback from the deal raised the possibility of Russian attacks on ships carrying Ukrainian grain and other products, posing a threat to the Ukrainian economy and global food security.

                  But the steady series of successful Ukrainian attacks on Russian warships and other military assets in the area have put Russia's fleet on the defensive, limiting its offensive capability.

                  HOW DID RUSSIA REACT?

                  Although the Russian Defense Ministry has mostly kept quiet about the Ukrainian drone and missile attacks on its naval assets, Russian military bloggers and commentators have harshly criticized the military brass for its slow and sloppy response to the threat.

                  The strikes have forced the Russian navy to take precautions that have affected its operations, including relocating some of its ships from ports in Crimea farther east to Novorossiysk to better protect them.

                  Despite the damage from Ukrainian attacks, the Black Sea fleet remains a powerful force and is still capable of launching long-range cruise missile strikes at Ukraine. Russian air bases in Crimea also have remained operational, hosting warplanes that have continued flying combat sorties to support its ground operations in the region.

                  Russian military bloggers reported that the head of the Black Sea fleet, Adm. Viktor Sokolov, was dismissed last month following the latest losses of warships. There was no official confirmation of his ouster.
                  ___
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    Video shot from the Russian ship Caesar Kunikov on the drone attack. Couple of thoughts. Poor muzzle discipline. No firing from stabilized mounts. No night vision and to compensate insufficient illumination. Passing through a door which should be dogged down. And make sure you have a GoPro!!!

                    Video ends with the 2nd explosion.


                    https://x.com/Tendar/status/1765376298736586834?s=20
                    Well at least they had a fire extinguisher handy. That would have helped!
                    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                      Well by my count Russia still has three or four modern guided missile frigates out there to 'spin' into into finial victory plus six or seven larger landing ships. I'm more than happy to see all of those turned into artificial reefs/marine parks first.
                      You can bet they will be VERY cautious with those.
                      sigpic

                      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                        How long before what's left of the men of the Black Sea "Fleet" start to find themselves transfered to the infantry?...
                        My bet is that quite a few have already been 'redeployed'. Possibly safer than staying on a ship.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                          Well at least they had a fire extinguisher handy. That would have helped!
                          Knowing the tendency of Russian conscripts to purloin and sell materiel, they probably tapped the extinguishers and sold what's inside, then jammed them full of styrofoam from takeaway clamshells, topping them off with gasoline from the motor pool.
                          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

                            My bet is that quite a few have already been 'redeployed'. Possibly safer than staying on a ship.
                            Well off the top of my head apart from the landing craft (as cargo carriers) the really only useful role their surface navy is playing now is as launching platforms for the land attack version of the Kalibr and that's a very expensive way of launching a few, very expensive missiles! Sure as hell the Russians won't be launching a sea borne assault on Odessa any time soon and its not like Ukraine has a navy to fight. Apart from a few drones that is!
                            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                              Well off the top of my head apart from the landing craft (as cargo carriers) the really only useful role their surface navy is playing now is as launching platforms for the land attack version of the Kalibr and that's a very expensive way of launching a few, very expensive missiles! Sure as hell the Russians won't be launching a sea borne assault on Odessa any time soon and its not like Ukraine has a navy to fight. Apart from a few drones that is!
                              The larger ships might be providing some useful radar coverage too, though I'm not sure what their range is. With the regular loss of AWACs they need everything they can get.

                              Russia should consider itself fortunate it isn't fighitng a real navy. Can you imagine the carnage if the USN was involved?
                              sigpic

                              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

                                The larger ships might be providing some useful radar coverage too, though I'm not sure what their range is. With the regular loss of AWACs they need everything they can get.

                                Russia should consider itself fortunate it isn't fighitng a real navy. Can you imagine the carnage if the USN was involved?
                                Well presumably if NATO was involved the Black Seas fleet could be dealt with without any US naval vessels actually having to be involved. If it was just the US? They'd probably get around to dealing with it from ships based in the Med.
                                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                                Comment

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