2022-2024 Russo-Ukrainian War

[Albany Rifles]

I know absolutely nothing on this platform but does the Russian Navy have anything like our E-2C and could they be repurposed for land warfare?

[Ironduke]

I know absolutely nothing on this platform but does the Russian Navy have anything like our E-2C and could they be repurposed for land warfare?

It's a helo, but the Kamov Ka-31 is an AEW. Designed for naval use.

[Albany Rifles]

It's a helo, but the Kamov Ka-31 is an AEW. Designed for naval use.

Thanks. That was my recollection but couldn't remember if they ever got a fixed wing.

[jlvfr]

It's a helo, but the Kamov Ka-31 is an AEW. Designed for naval use.

If I remember correctly, these were originally ordered by Russia for the aborted buy of 2 Mistral-class amphibs. I assume they'll be attached to the Admiral Kuznetsov when (if?...) it comes out of refit.

[Monash]

If I remember correctly, these were originally ordered by Russia for the aborted buy of 2 Mistral-class amphibs. I assume they'll be attached to the Admiral Kuznetsov when (if?...) it comes out of refit.

Supposedly later this year. But I suspect the Russian Defense Ministry has had other more pressing priorities for investment recently and between the war and increased sanctions? Who knows? Anyway even if it is near ready for deployment it's very expensive to run and would add nothing in terms of useful capabilities to the war in Ukraine. Unless of course Putin sees it as an important vanity project and he hasn't had one of those recently so who knows?

[Ironduke]

Well, tragedy has struck as Ukraine shot down an Russian Il-76 in the Belgorod Oblast, which was carrying 65 Ukrainian POWs being transported in preparation for a prisoner exchange, and 9 Russian crew. No survivors.

Ukraine claims that Russia had previously requested safe airspace when transporting Ukrainian POWs for prisoner exchanges, but did not do so this time. Ukrainians claim that they shot it down unknowingly assuming it was carrying something else; S-300s has been mentioned by several sources.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68083739

[Albany Rifles]

Well, tragedy has struck as Ukraine shot down an Russian Il-76 in the Belgorod Oblast, which was carrying 65 Ukrainian POWs being transported in preparation for a prisoner exchange, and 9 Russian crew. No survivors.

Ukraine claims that Russia had previously requested safe airspace when transporting Ukrainian POWs for prisoner exchanges, but did not do so this time. Ukrainians claim that they shot it down unknowingly assuming it was carrying something else; S-300s has been mentioned by several sources.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68083739

Sadly this is not a new circumstance. In World War 2 Allied submarines sank many troopships full of Allied POWs resulting in the deaths of thousands. One of the better known who survived was the French author Pierre Boulle who wrote The Bridge Over The River Kwai & Planet of the Apes.

Lest We Forget


https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-...yoku-maru.html

[S2]

Is this confirmed? Lots of footage from the crash site but bodies are NOT scattered around the site. Manifest has indicated prisoners already released previously and home. This story isn't at all over.

[statquo]

Or they killed the 65-70 Ukrainians while in captivity and the crash is a convenient cover story for why they never returned to their home soil.

[Monash]

Or they killed the 65-70 Ukrainians while in captivity and the crash is a convenient cover story for why they never returned to their home soil.

Possibly but its kind of hard to imagine even the Russians would expend scare resources like trained air crew and large military transport aircraft just to provide a cover story for the deaths of a relatively small number of POWs. Far easier just to play a shell game with the prisoners locations and status and create fake paper trails that 'officially' move them from one camp to another, into hospital for treatment for illnesses or accidents and/or otherwise report their deaths spread out over time. There are supposed to be something like 10,000 POWs in Russian hands, you'd think they could easily hide the deaths for 60-70 of them simply by spreading the official dates of death out over the course of a year or so. Five to six 6 deaths month? Questions might be asked but it would be hard to prove otherwise until long after the war ended. Much cheaper to.

[Officer of Engineers]

I have no clue what's going on

https://news.yahoo.com/fsb-forbade-v...Dbd8ZTUXTkVPf4

[Ironduke]

I don't know quite what to make out of this story a day later. It seems completely preposterous for anyone, even for Russia, to make such a claim as 65 POWs dead in an aircraft shootdown, if it did not actually occur. I cannot conceive of how it would serve any purpose to knowingly make such a false claim.

There are definitely some inconsistencies emerging in the story as time has go on. Such as the destination of the aircraft being completely opposite to that of the direction of the Ukrainian border. No evidence of dozens of bodies being recovered. Ukrainian intelligence reports about the number of bodies actually being delivered to morgues.

We do know that an Il-76 was shot down in the Belgorod region. It seems there is confirmation from the Ukrainians that a POW exchange was imminent in the coming days, this after the Russian claims of 65 POWs dead in the shootdown were made. And it would also seem that these aircraft have been used to transport Ukrainian POWs back to Ukraine in the past, and the Ukrainians have granted safe passage to and from the airfields these aircraft have used. But why knowingly lie about them even being on board in the first place, if they weren't? I just can't fathom a conceivable purpose, again, even for the Russians to make such a claim.

I am just speculating here, but I had read shortly after this story emerged that there were two such planes in the air, one of which was quickly grounded after the shootdown. Perhaps the POWs were on that plane, and someone on the Russian side rushed and put out this claim, confused about which plane was shot down.

[tbm3fan]

I don't know quite what to make out of this story a day later. It seems completely preposterous for anyone, even for Russia, to make such a claim as 65 POWs dead in an aircraft shootdown, if it did not actually occur. I cannot conceive of how it would serve any purpose to knowingly make such a false claim.

There are definitely some inconsistencies emerging in the story as time has go on. Such as the destination of the aircraft being completely opposite to that of the direction of the Ukrainian border. No evidence of dozens of bodies being recovered. Ukrainian intelligence reports about the number of bodies actually being delivered to morgues.

We do know that an Il-76 was shot down in the Belgorod region. It seems there is confirmation from the Ukrainians that a POW exchange was imminent in the coming days, this after the Russian claims of 65 POWs dead in the shootdown were made. And it would also seem that these aircraft have been used to transport Ukrainian POWs back to Ukraine in the past, and the Ukrainians have granted safe passage to and from the airfields these aircraft have used. But why knowingly lie about them even being on board in the first place, if they weren't? I just can't fathom a conceivable purpose, again, even for the Russians to make such a claim.

I am just speculating here, but I had read shortly after this story emerged that there were two such planes in the air, one of which was quickly grounded after the shootdown. Perhaps the POWs were on that plane, and someone on the Russian side rushed and put out this claim, confused about which plane was shot down.

I wondered the same thing about why would you fly POWs, for an exchange, into Russia and away from the country you are going to exchange with. Especially since everything was already at the border of Ukraine. Of course this is one of the issues with propaganda and lying. Get's hard to keep track of your stories especially when more than one source is putting out the lies.

[Ironduke]

Sources I read in the minutes and hours after this story first emerged, is that there were two Il-76s airborne in the Belgorod Oblast when one was shot down. The one that didn't get shot down was immediately ordered to land. Can't help but wonder if someone in a position to know was aware one of them was carrying POWs, but jumped the gun and and claims were made, under the assumption the one carrying the POWs was the one shot down, maybe not being aware there was a second airborne. And now it is difficult to backtrack on the story that was put out.

The inconsistencies in the list of POWs isn't something I necessarily find suspicious. I could see where Ukraine and Russia may prioritize certain personnel and put in requests for those individuals, and the names on the lists could be bumped up to a current exchange, or bumped off toward a future one, and that the list that made the rounds may have been at some point a tentative, but not finalized one at some point in the past, and may have had nothing to do with any POWs who may or may not have been on an Il-76 that day of the shootdown.

[jlvfr]

... why would anyone carry POWs by air, on a high-value transport anyway?! Why not trucks?