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  • Thought about this last night and its definitely not in my area of expertise and so a question for the 'experts' here. Could Ukraine use ground or air launched thermobarics to rapidly clear pathways through minefields or a they a) not suitable for that purpose or b) on the 'to provocative' list of potential weapon systems that Ukraine isn't allowed to have?
    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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    • Petraeus: Ukraine has ‘adapted very impressively’ to Russian defenses
      Retired Army Gen. David Petraeus complimented the Ukrainian military for a long-awaited counteroffensive that has disappointed some Western allies, saying the Ukrainian army has “adapted very impressively” to defenses that were more formidable than expected.

      “No plan survives contact with the enemy and that has been true in this case,” Petraeus said in a CNN interview Tuesday. “Certainly there were hopes … that they might be able to mount combined arms operations that could penetrate the Russian defenses, but that was before we all learned about the depth of these defenses, about the sophistication of them.”

      “The Russians have not distinguished themselves in many respects … but this defense in depth is quite formidable,” he continued.

      The comments come as some U.S. officials have cast doubt on the Ukrainian goal of taking back much of southern Ukraine with a late-summer counteroffensive. Progress has been very slow, but Petraeus said that detractors should trust Ukrainian decision-making and that progress appears to be on the horizon.

      “The Ukrainians, I think, have adapted very impressively. I do think those in the West oughta acknowledge the Ukrainians probably know best their own terrain … their own troops, they know their own strengths and they know their weaknesses,” he said.

      “They are picking their way through these minefields and they have made progress,” he added.

      On Tuesday, the U.S. announced an additional $250 million in military aid for Ukraine, mostly in the form of small arms ammunition and air defense missiles. Petraeus said the current fighting could last until November, when harsh winter weather is expected to halt combat.

      In the next four months, the U.S. and Western allies must continue their support for the Ukrainians with military and financial aid, he said.

      “All of this is slow. It’s very, very hard. But they are making progress. What we need to do is everything we can to enable them to succeed in what will probably stretch for another four months,” Petraeus said.
      _________
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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      • IIRC, today is the 9th anniversary in Minnies death at Ilovaisk, the base that was hit in Peskov didn't have the 331st there, but did have VDV troops homebased there besides the IL-76's.

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        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          IIRC, today is the 9th anniversary in Minnies death at Ilovaisk, the base that was hit in Peskov didn't have the 331st there, but did have VDV troops homebased there besides the IL-76's.
          I would dearly love to know what happened to Minnie. I'm also concerned about Sara (Snapper). She hasn't logged in since August 2021.
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

            I would dearly love to know what happened to Minnie. I'm also concerned about Sara (Snapper). She hasn't logged in since August 2021.
            No contact emails you could follow up?
            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Monash View Post

              No contact emails you could follow up?
              I've tried every way I know how, both Minnie's sister and Sara. No response
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                I've tried every way I know how, both Minnie's sister and Sara. No response
                Facebook, Twitter?
                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  IIRC, today is the 9th anniversary in Minnies death at Ilovaisk, the base that was hit in Peskov didn't have the 331st there, but did have VDV troops homebased there besides the IL-76's.
                  Thanks for the reminder Z. She would be so proud of the way her people have fought against the odds. Wish she was still here to help them.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                    Thought about this last night and its definitely not in my area of expertise and so a question for the 'experts' here. Could Ukraine use ground or air launched thermobarics to rapidly clear pathways through minefields or a they a) not suitable for that purpose or b) on the 'to provocative' list of potential weapon systems that Ukraine isn't allowed to have?
                    I'll take a stab.

                    The issue with thermobarics is they form a circular blast...the is my understanding.

                    A better solution is doing what they are doing...using things like a MICLIC to blast a patch is more efficient.

                    Still need a plow tank to lead the way.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M58_MICLIC
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

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                    • Reports that 4 Il-76 strategic airlifters were damaged/destroyed in Pskov. At least one in the video on TheDrive I think we can chalk up as definitely destroyed.

                      https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-inside-russia
                      https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...84537085264230

                      Regarding Russian minefields, I've seen recent footage that infrared imaging is able to detect the mines at night, since apparently they retain heat differently than the surrounding soil which them visible. Infrared imaging might have different effectiveness as the weather changes, no idea, but at least for now the Ukrainians should be able to know where mines are and where they aren't, and can figure out where to direct clearing efforts.
                      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                      • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                        Facebook, Twitter?
                        No joy there either.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Saw some reporfs that 6 ukrainian "air crew" died.. something about 2 helis...

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                          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                            I'll take a stab.

                            The issue with thermobarics is they form a circular blast...the is my understanding.

                            A better solution is doing what they are doing...using things like a MICLIC to blast a patch is more efficient.

                            Still need a plow tank to lead the way.

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M58_MICLIC
                            To add a little, Thermobarics work great in confined spaces. But try using one in a open field on a windy day. Also the blast isn't consistent over the entire area. So more mines don't receive enough force to detonate.

                            USMC experimented with them prior to using MICLIC. Looking at "In Stride" breaching during an amphibious assault. MICLIC works way better

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post

                              Regarding Russian minefields, I've seen recent footage that infrared imaging is able to detect the mines at night, since apparently they retain heat differently than the surrounding soil which them visible. Infrared imaging might have different effectiveness as the weather changes, no idea, but at least for now the Ukrainians should be able to know where mines are and where they aren't, and can figure out where to direct clearing efforts.
                              We., and the Russians have known that ever since thermals sights were deployed. Think 1980s.

                              The workaround to defeat that technique is to plant steel plates with the same shape as your mines in the minefield. They heat up in the sun just like the real mines do and give off the same signature at night. Nihil novi sub sole

                              Don't get me started on the Oohs and Aahs with their "Revolution of 21st Century Warfare" in using cheap drones for artillery spotting and recon. And hen telling us how backward we are for trying to get them to learn and use old school human assets

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post

                                To add a little, Thermobarics work great in confined spaces. But try using one in a open field on a windy day. Also the blast isn't consistent over the entire area. So more mines don't receive enough force to detonate.

                                USMC experimented with them prior to using MICLIC. Looking at "In Stride" breaching during an amphibious assault. MICLIC works way better
                                I figured multiple explosions would be required anyway. So maybe something along lines of those anti-runway cluster munitions might work i.e. lots of smaller bomblets designed to detonate before impact and generating a downward, conical pressure zone in a line through the minefield. It would still take multiple missiles or drones but at least it might be quick (if it worked). I suspect its probably already been tried though.
                                Last edited by Monash; 31 Aug 23,, 08:55.
                                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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