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  • Originally posted by Andrey Egorov View Post

    I believe Stanislav Petrov's act of bravery wasn't valued by military high command. RVSN officers since the incident were carefully selected and brainwashed all these years, those who resisted were forced out of military.
    Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking of

    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • "I believe Stanislav Petrov's act of bravery wasn't valued by military high command. RVSN officers since the incident were carefully selected and brainwashed all these years..."

      Perhaps the 39th anniversary of this event, tomorrow on Sept. 26th, will provide the Russian command leadership an opportunity to further reflect upon the myriad errors of their ways. So typically Russian that a brilliant and astute decision is not celebrated.

      To include by the west.

      Jake Sullivan believes we've clearly communicated "...catastrophic consequences for Russia. The United States will respond decisively..." (5:06 mark). I trust "catastrophic" and "decisively" to have been privately elaborated in great detail based upon further Sullivan comments within the interview. Sullivan made plain that there are clear communication channels with the senior Russian leadership.

      It'll be a Russian decision from here, including whether there might need to be a change in the Russian NCA.
      "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
      "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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      • Question for the military folks here. I’ve seen various reports/guesses of the planned training those poor mobilized sods are gonna get. Two weeks, 30 days.

        What’s the functional difference in that two week differential? Say the Russkis throw some of those into the meat grinder but attempt to do some sort of training regimen for the rest in preparation for a spring offensive; what would two-three months of training get for both a raw recruit or an actual Russian reservist?
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • Eric,

          Would that be the Russian training base producing the stellar examples of soldierly behavior we saw on the road to Kyiv? Or the training base that's since been stripped to flesh out troop units subsequently accomplishing nothing of consequence?

          Because...I wouldn't have any faith in either. The Russian military is a broken machine and it's nearly impossible for me to envision how it re-invents itself in the midst of war.

          ISW Sept. 25 evidently agrees.
          Last edited by S2; 26 Sep 22,, 03:47.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            Largest arm suppliers to Ukraine:
            Wow... just wow. The Major E.U economies, the driving forces of E.U policy decisions and shaping have effectively shrugged their shoulders relative to their position. Italy isn't even on there.

            That's flat out amazing.
            Ego Numquam

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            • Originally posted by kato View Post
              Official full German list of delivered goods as of this week, for some illustration of how you can't really put it down to just those things in the pictures...

              Only gonna do this once. They update and publish this list every week.
              Ah, some context - thankyou.
              Ego Numquam

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Chunder View Post

                Wow... just wow. The Major E.U economies, the driving forces of E.U policy decisions and shaping have effectively shrugged their shoulders relative to their position. Italy isn't even on there.

                That's flat out amazing.
                There's more to military aid than just the flashy eye candy on that (incomplete) graphic
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                  What’s the functional difference in that two week differential?
                  Carrying a full load for 100 metres to carrying a full load for 1 km which is still not good enough.But us outsiders won't see the difference. We wouldn't know if those troops were dropped off or marched in.

                  Originally posted by astralis View Post
                  Say the Russkis throw some of those into the meat grinder but attempt to do some sort of training regimen for the rest in preparation for a spring offensive; what would two-three months of training get for both a raw recruit or an actual Russian reservist?
                  I'm more concern about the officers. They would need the full 6 months to get up to speed on the strategic, operations, and tactics.

                  Chimo

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                  • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    ... I'm more concern about the officers. They would need the full 6 months to get up to speed on the strategic, operations, and tactics.
                    I could be wrong of course but, based on their performance to date I'm not sure strategy, operations and tactics are 'must haves' for the current generation of Russian Officers. Or am I being overly critical?
                    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                    • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                      I could be wrong of course but, based on their performance to date I'm not sure strategy, operations and tactics are 'must haves' for the current generation of Russian Officers. Or am I being overly critical?
                      The point is that everybody needs to be on the same book, if not the same page. These 2ndary Reserve Officers are versed in division and regiment level combat. It does nobody any good if they're trying to organize adhoc divs and regts when others are shoivng bns up their ass.

                      Chimo

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                      • Originally posted by Andrey Egorov View Post

                        Putin firmly believes that all Ukrainian territory is inherently Russian. Don't underestimate the level of his delusion.
                        I'm pretty sure that he would not only like to reconstitute the Soviet Union but also the Russian Empire from back in the 1800s. Looking at Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Finland. All that might make him happy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          Question for the military folks here. I’ve seen various reports/guesses of the planned training those poor mobilized sods are gonna get. Two weeks, 30 days.

                          What’s the functional difference in that two week differential? Say the Russkis throw some of those into the meat grinder but attempt to do some sort of training regimen for the rest in preparation for a spring offensive; what would two-three months of training get for both a raw recruit or an actual Russian reservist?
                          Most of these men will not have their heart, mind, and soul into this at all. Expected to exert their best effort for something they have no understanding about or why they are even there. They all go in, if they go in, with zero morale. Any sane officer wouldn't want an Army made up of these kinds of soldiers despite all the threats you can throw at them. I could see many looking at the first chance of slipping away and there are not enough officers to watch them all.
                          Last edited by tbm3fan; 26 Sep 22,, 07:08.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                            Question for the military folks here. I’ve seen various reports/guesses of the planned training those poor mobilized sods are gonna get. Two weeks, 30 days.

                            What’s the functional difference in that two week differential? Say the Russkis throw some of those into the meat grinder but attempt to do some sort of training regimen for the rest in preparation for a spring offensive; what would two-three months of training get for both a raw recruit or an actual Russian reservist?
                            Prior to Nato attack, when the threats became obvious, we had a speed up training that lasted 3 months. The quality of the training varied but not by much, because new soldiers were commanded by already experienced soldiers and lower rank officers in the field. The command structure can be an issue but that can be bridged by giving a field commission to the veterans. It worked for us, more or less. If those new troops are used to secure depth and are not deployed right away to the front lines, they might have some chance. But anyhow it will be a very steep and unforgiving learning curve.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              /roll eyes

                              ok then, back to the more serious discussion.
                              Yes please.

                              if you think of the RuAF as 1.) a propaganda air force meant to demonstrate technical capability, and 2.) an extension of the Russian ground forces, then all of this makes much more sense.

                              no SEAD, no complex strike packages, risk-adverse, haphazard CAS.
                              ....and suddenly it all falls into place. Yep, that sounds like a very good explanation.

                              Was this known/suspected before the war, or are we adding it to the list of surprises this war has brought forth? It certainly has been a spectacular failure relative to its paper strength. Good news for Ukraine, bad news for lots of Russians.
                              sigpic

                              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                                Official full German list of delivered goods as of this week, for some illustration of how you can't really put it down to just those things in the pictures...

                                Only gonna do this once. They update and publish this list every week.
                                • 7944 RGW90 Matador anti-tank rocket launchers
                                • 900 Panzerfaust 3 anti-tank rocket launchers with 3000 rounds
                                • 2700 Strela MANPADS
                                • 500 Stinger MANPADS
                                • 100 MG3 machine guns
                                • 50 Bunkerfaust anti-structure rocket launchers
                                • 43 man-portable counter-UAV systems (14 "sensor/jammers", 10 shoulder-fired "cUAV guns", 12 "electronic cUAV systems", 7 "jammers")
                                Other Items:[LIST]

                                The numbers of infantry guided weapons alone are stagerring. They can also confuse anyone that doesn't study such matters. "Well, look, almost 9000 AT missiles, that's enough to win the war, right?"... nope...

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