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  • So the question becomes how to the Russians resupply their forces on that side of the river? Pontoon bridges? I can't see that being a long term solution, not as long as Ukraine still has HIMARS.
    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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    • Originally posted by Monash View Post
      So the question becomes how to the Russians resupply their forces on that side of the river? Pontoon bridges? I can't see that being a long term solution, not as long as Ukraine still has HIMARS.
      No, not pontoon bridges. Pontoon ferries/barges and it's been working. Munitions expenditures matches resupplies though the Russians have reduced down their offensive posture to achieve this balance. HIMARS, at least the ones supplied, cannot target moving targets.

      Chimo

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      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        No, not pontoon bridges. Pontoon ferries/barges and it's been working. Munitions expenditures matches resupplies though the Russians have reduced down their offensive posture to achieve this balance. HIMARS, at least the ones supplied, cannot target moving targets.
        Hmmm, barges have to dock to load and unload, so that's one option if they can get the timing right. That and maybe some Himars that can hit moving targets Of course you'd need real time intel and you'd have to have the docking points on either side of the river nailed down pat in your GPS systems. Time it right and even the old mark one eyeball might work. Of course more capable PGMs would be the better option.
        If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          No, not pontoon bridges. Pontoon ferries/barges and it's been working. Munitions expenditures matches resupplies though the Russians have reduced down their offensive posture to achieve this balance.
          There's no evidence for any of that, whether a barge is "working" for them, whether the Russians are being re-supplied adequately, or whether the Russia's position on the west bank of the Dnipro is sustainable, or for how long. This is pure conjecture.

          Undoubtedly, the Russians on the west bank are worse off than they were when they had two road and one rail bridge across the Dnipro. There's no way to match the logistical throughput of those bridges with a barge.

          Originally posted by Monash View Post

          Hmmm, barges have to dock to load and unload, so that's one option if they can get the timing right. That and maybe some Himars that can hit moving targets Of course you'd need real time intel and you'd have to have the docking points on either side of the river nailed down pat in your GPS systems. Time it right and even the old mark one eyeball might work. Of course more capable PGMs would be the better option.
          So far, footage of the barge the Russians are using show it using fixed landing points right next to the bridge, on either side of the river.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Ironduke; 27 Aug 22,, 08:57.
          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            Oh yes, they are. You do remember intel about Putin asking Xi for weapons. Putin and Xi are already laying the ground work. To date, not a single Russian arms contract has been cancelled despite sanctions. Expect big contract announcements after the war.
            Anything can happen, but I seriously doubt we will see Chinese tanks and munitions showing up in Ukraine.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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            • https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...rce=reddit.com
              Russia is pulling all its fighter jets out of Crimea after a series of strikes on its military outposts there, secret NATO report says

              Russia is pulling all of its fighter jets out of Crimea in an apparent response to recent explosions at Russian military outposts in the region, a secret NATO report seen by Insider said.

              Russia has already moved ten aircraft — six Su-35S and four MiG-31BM jets — out of Crimea and into Russia and is set to continue until all fighter jets are removed, the report, which was dated August 22, said.

              The first ten jets were moved from Belbek airfield in Crimea to Kushchevskaya and Marinovka, two regions in Russia, the report said.

              "Russia has dispersed 10x fighter aircraft from Crimea to other airfields in mainland Russia to likely prevent further losses from Ukrainian attacks," the report said.

              The report was referring to a series of apparent attacks in Crimea, the Ukrainian region that Russia illegally annexed in 2014. Ukraine has not claimed responsibility for the explosions, though Ukrainian officials have suggested that it was involved.

              Multiple explosions hit Saki airbase and Russia's navy headquarters in Sevastopol, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has made it clear that his ultimate goal is to retake occupied Crimea.

              As Insider previously reported, moving these assets farther from the front lines could make it harder for Russia to use them in operations in Ukraine.

              Belbek airfield, which is near Sevastopol, is "Russia's primary airfield providing support in southern Ukraine and the Black Sea," the NATO report said.

              The report noted that at the time of its publication, 32 Russian fighter jets remained in Belbek airfield: They were mostly the Su-27 Flanker J fighter jets, but there were also a small number of SU-35Ss and MiG-31BMs.

              These aircraft are "likely insufficient" to maintain the same level of air support in the region, the report said.

              Russia has also increased the number of its tactical surface-to-air missiles in Crimea to defend against attacks by Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones, the report said.

              "Ukrainian UAVs are hard for Russia to target due to poor IADS (Integrated Air Defense System) C2, likely a weakness across the full spectrum of Russia's armed forces' efforts in the Ukraine conflict," the report said.
              Last edited by Ironduke; 27 Aug 22,, 08:59.
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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              • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                Anything can happen, but I seriously doubt we will see Chinese tanks and munitions showing up in Ukraine.
                In that case, Putin lost round 3 before it begins. It will be an arms race after round 2. Without the Chinese, the Ukrainians would get the mostest the firstest hands down. There is simply no other readied source of tracks and wheels that can match NATO's (and surpass it) re-armament of the UKR.

                And I remind you that not a single contract has been cancelled. The Russians are still profitting from the arms trade with China which is against the Western sanctions.
                Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 27 Aug 22,, 09:07.
                Chimo

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                • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                  There's no evidence for any of that, whether a barge is "working" for them, whether the Russians are being re-supplied adequately, or whether the Russia's position on the west bank of the Dnipro is sustainable, or for how long. This is pure conjecture.
                  Oh horse puckey. The battle picture is the evidence. The Russians ain't running out of ammo, the Ukrainian counter-attack has been grounded to a halt, and the Russians are still on the attack, albeit with infantry reccee instead of reccee by fire. The Russians are still in the fight and it would be ignorant to suggest their logistics picture cannot support their attacks. Else, they would not be on the attack.
                  Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 27 Aug 22,, 09:10.
                  Chimo

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                  • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Oh horse puckey. The battle picture is the evidence. The Russians ain't running out of ammo and the Ukrainian counter-attack has been grounded to a halt.
                    How many trips across the river in that barge does it take to move what used to take one trainload of artillery munitions across the river? How long does this take?

                    The idea that one barge in perfectly adequate for all of Russian logistical needs on the west bank of the Dnipro seems a bit far-fetched.
                    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                    • Because the Russians pre-positioned large stockpiles before the Ukrainians attacked the bridges. I count at least two ammo dumps destroyed by the Ukrainians on the west side of the river. There are more since army and area keep theirs as need. Area supplies army and army supplies BTG. The barges can easily replenish usage especially since they've cut down on reccee by fire and gone back to reccee teams.

                      And there are more than one single barge and easily built.

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                      Chimo

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                      • A Canadian Service Battalion (Transport Coy, Supply Coy, Admin Coy) is 36-47 trucks designed to support a brigade group of 6000 men. So yes, those barges could handle the load, especially running 24/7.
                        Chimo

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                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          A Canadian Service Battalion (Transport Coy, Supply Coy, Admin Coy) is 36-47 trucks designed to support a brigade group of 6000 men. So yes, those barges could handle the load, especially running 24/7.
                          Well they would have to be civilian vehicles because the Russians only have a transport platoon supporting a brigade.

                          And wonder what shape those vehicles are in…
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

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                          • Looks like the Flakpanzer Gepard is operational in the Ukraine.

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                            • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              Well they would have to be civilian vehicles because the Russians only have a transport platoon supporting a brigade.

                              And wonder what shape those vehicles are in…
                              The response was towards Matt that the pontoon barges are more than adequate to support current Russian ops epecially when they're now husbanding their ammo stocks instead of free fire

                              Chimo

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                              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                The response was towards Matt that the pontoon barges are more than adequate to support current Russian ops epecially when they're now husbanding their ammo stocks instead of free fire
                                Got it. Just wanted to reinforce that where we (NATO) have a support battalion/brigade/group the Russians have companies.
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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