Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2022-2024 Russo-Ukrainian War

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    The United States recognizes Crimea as Ukrainian territory.
    Doesn't mean we're going to allow the Ukrainians to start WWIII with our weapons.

    Chimo

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

      And being able to blend in, in every single way possible, can't hurt one iota.
      What does that mean? Acting like idiots, and carelessly tossing cigarette butts everywhere?
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
        What does that mean? Acting like idiots, and carelessly tossing cigarette butts everywhere?
        Three words: Adidas Track Suits
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          Doesn't mean we're going to allow the Ukrainians to start WWIII with our weapons.
          Well, DoD is on the record denying ATACMS have been supplied to Ukraine as of 8/12. On the other hand:

          Q: Would it be a problem if this base in Crimea had been struck by an American weapon? Would it be a problem for U.S.?

          A: I think, you know, what we want the Ukrainians to do is fight the fight against the Russians the way that they would fight it. And you know, we don't have -- we're not telling them how to -- how to do business. They're making it a choice as to how they want to fight. We have told them in the past that we have given them munitions that allow them to fight Russians in Ukraine, and -- and you know, other than that, this is a Ukrainian war, so they're the ones that select the targets.

          https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcr...ound-briefing/

          So the takeaway here, using American weapons to hit Russian targets in Crimea, not a problem.

          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            So the takeaway here, using American weapons to hit Russian targets in Crimea, not a problem.
            All I read is doublespeak. The question about hitting Crimea with American weapons is not answered and skirt around about fighting Russians in Ukraine without ever mentioning the legal grey area of Crimea. Whether we like it or not, the Crimean population is not only pro-Russian but very anti-Ukrainian. They tried several times since 1954 to get out from under Keiv's rule. but was stopped by Keiv's legal posturing, not by popular demand.
            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 17 Aug 22,, 05:25.
            Chimo

            Comment


            • You're making the argument for me. The Russians took Crimea from the Ottomans just like we took Quebec from France. And sorry, it was the Russian Empire, ie Russia, not the Ukrainians nor the Kevian Empire who kicked the Ottomans from Crimea.
              the historical examples don't mean much for international law or claim. the fact remains that most of the world doesn't recognize the Russian claim on Crimea/LNR/DNR/Novorossiya, historical ties or not. they recognize Ukraine's.

              in any case the Russians threw that all away when they decided force was the final arbiter.

              The question about hitting Crimea with American weapons is not answered and skirt around about fighting Russians in Ukraine without ever mentioning the legal grey area of Crimea.
              how much does it matter at this point? the Ukrainians are apparently doing just fine with their shaping operations on Crimea, seemingly without the use of American weapons. even the Russians aren't making a stink about it. that's why the Russians are going on about careless smoking or sabotage.

              and when the question about American weapons against Crimea does begin to matter, I'm pretty sure we all know what the answer is gonna be.

              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

              Comment


              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                the historical examples don't mean much for international law or claim. the fact remains that most of the world doesn't recognize the Russian claim on Crimea/LNR/DNR/Novorossiya, historical ties or not. they recognize Ukraine's.

                in any case the Russians threw that all away when they decided force was the final arbiter.
                What else is new? Krajina, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq. And let's just ignore Africa.

                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                how much does it matter at this point? the Ukrainians are apparently doing just fine with their shaping operations on Crimea, seemingly without the use of American weapons. even the Russians aren't making a stink about it. that's why the Russians are going on about careless smoking or sabotage.
                200K screaming mad Crimeans.

                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                and when the question about American weapons against Crimea does begin to matter, I'm pretty sure we all know what the answer is gonna be.
                Only if the Ukrainians are winning.
                Chimo

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  All I read is doublespeak.
                  This seems completely unambiguous to me.

                  https://www.politico.com/newsletters...rimea-00052364

                  A senior administration official told NatSec Daily the U.S. supports strikes on Crimea if Kyiv deems them necessary.

                  “We don't select targets, of course, and everything we've provided is for self-defense purposes. Any target they choose to pursue on sovereign Ukrainian soil is by definition self defense,” this person said.

                  After your host checked to see if the administration considered the peninsula sovereign Ukrainian territory, the official replied: “Crimea is Ukraine.”

                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                    This seems completely unambiguous to me.
                    That's easy to explain. Nothing we've supplied could reach those targets in Crimea.

                    Chimo

                    Comment


                    • On the other hand the further Russia advances into Ukraine (assuming they continue to do so) the more justification there to give the Ukrainians longer ranged thingies that go 'boom'.
                      Last edited by Monash; 18 Aug 22,, 06:36.
                      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                        That's easy to explain. Nothing we've supplied could reach those targets in Crimea.
                        There is no opposition to Ukraine using US weapons against targets in Crimea either. Full stop.
                        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                        Comment


                        • Until we give the Ukrainians the weapons they need to hit Crimea, that's the same thing not allowing them to hit Crimea with our weapons. The suits can blabber all they want but we have given them zero abilities to do so.

                          You did notice that we have not given any of our state of the art tiger force systems. We've given them old T-72s/LEO 1s/M113s while LEO IIs/ABRAMS/LAV IIIs/COYOTEs/BRADLEYs are sitting in storage and in some cases (LAV IIIs and COYOTES) being decommissioned. I mean we have given the Iraqis ABRAMs.

                          We have not given the Ukrainians anything that can decide a battle, let alone hit Crimea.
                          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 18 Aug 22,, 07:40.
                          Chimo

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Monash View Post
                            On the other hand the further Russia advances into Ukraine (assuming they continue to do so) the more justification there to give the Ukrainians longer ranged thingies that go 'boom'.
                            I like the idea of SF better. The Russians would be spending men and material hunting down squirrels in their rear areas. Men and material that can't be used at the front.

                            Chimo

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              Until we give the Ukrainians the weapons they need to hit Crimea, that's the same thing not allowing them to hit Crimea with our weapons. The suits can blabber all they want but we have given them zero abilities to do so.
                              HARMs can hit parts of northern Crimea from the Kherson direction.
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                              Comment


                              • for the time being it doesn't matter: the Ukrainian strategy in Crimea is clearly not reliant on American weapons. and as the good Col says, it won't matter until the Ukrainians are winning, IE they have taken Kherson and are advancing beyond the Dnipro.

                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X