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  • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Hold on... former soviet aircraft refited to fire AGM-88? In such short time? Wow...
    Could also be ground-based launchers. The DoD might be engaging in a little disinformation by saying air-launched. Lots of great info in that article from The War Zone

    But you bring up a good point: Either that was some serious work to get them refitted to a completely different aircraft in just a few months....or it's been worked on very quietly for much much longer.

    Edit: A follow up article from The War Zone

    "Air launch is ideal for the AGM-88 as it provides for far better kinetic performance (longer range and speed). It also allows for a far better, elevated sensing position to organically detect the presence and general direction, or even geolocation, of a threat emitter. The AGM-88 could work with relatively minimal integration, potentially leveraging a federated interface, such as e-tablet, for very basic functionality. Ukraine's fighters are Soviet-era machines and totally lack the right interfaces, including the basic bus architecture, for modern NATO-compatible weaponry. But it's possible a relatively crude modification could have been adapted for this single weapon. There is also the possibility of a clandestine transfer of Soviet-era aircraft from NATO states that have been upgraded with NATO-standard bus architecture and adaptable avionics that could provide an interface for the HARM."
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
      Hold on... former soviet aircraft refited to fire AGM-88? In such short time? Wow...
      Though considering what is now the German part of EADS did once perform an indepth weapons control system upgrade on MiG-29s in the 90s and Germany has a non-descript "MiG-29 spare parts" item on its list of items donated to Ukraine...

      * (and yes, those were the German MiG-29 upgraded to NATO compatibility that Poland is now flying and got blocked cold by the US over for trying to hand exactly those aircraft to Ukraine)

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      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

        Could also be ground-based launchers. The DoD might be engaging in a little disinformation by saying air-launched. Lots of great info in that article from The War Zone
        ... didn't even know there were ground-based launchers for this... would play hell with the LOS range...

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        • Originally posted by kato View Post
          Though considering what is now the German part of EADS did once perform an indepth weapons control system upgrade on MiG-29s in the 90s and Germany has a non-descript "MiG-29 spare parts" item on its list of items donated to Ukraine...

          * (and yes, those were the German MiG-29 upgraded to NATO compatibility that Poland is now flying and got blocked cold by the US over for trying to hand exactly those aircraft to Ukraine)
          Good point... but is still one heck of a rush job... reminds me of the RAF in 1982, doing rush mods on Vulcans for anti radar missiles.

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          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

            Yuuuup!

            Under Secretary of Defense Colin Kahl:
            "In recent pda packages, we have included a number of anti-radiation missiles that can be fired off of Ukrainian aircraft that can have an effect on Russian radars."
            https://www.c-span.org/video/?522229...aine-war&live=
            Hey TH, you sure that particular press conference confirms that HARMs have been deployed in Ukraine? It's just that I couldn't find the specific reference to them in the briefing (could just be me of course).. .
            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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            • Originally posted by Monash View Post

              Hey TH, you sure that particular press conference confirms that HARMs have been deployed in Ukraine? It's just that I couldn't find the specific reference to them in the briefing (could just be me of course).. .
              Not HARMs specifically but at the 28:06 mark is when he mentions that air-launched anti-radiation missiles have been sent to Ukraine.

              TWZ notes:
              Kahl did not name the missiles, but his remarks come right after the emergence of apparent evidence of the use of an AGM-88 missile in Ukraine, as The War Zone reported on in detail yesterday.

              The Undersecretary of Defense also specifically said that the missiles had been part of previous PDA packages. President Joe Biden can only exercise this so-called "drawdown authority," which you can read more about here, to transfer items already in U.S. inventory. HARMs, including older models no longer in active service, would definitely be eligible for transfer to Ukraine through a drawdown authorized by President Biden.

              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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              • From Aljazeera News. Key Russian weapon systems are reliant on critical components manufactured in the West. Not a lot of details in the report but western analysts are getting a gold mine of information about Russian armaments out of this war. (Also doesn't bode well for the Russian arms industry for the next few years.)

                https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...ern-parts-rusi
                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                • Do we have any anti-radiation missiles besides HARMs? Given that's the only one in our stockpile AFAIK, I think the only inference is that it's the AGM-88 he's talking about.
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                  • But you bring up a good point: Either that was some serious work to get them refitted to a completely different aircraft in just a few months.
                    again, :)

                    also the training as well. Lots of work.

                    this is huge because up until now, the Ukrainians have HIMARS as a low-rent Air Force.

                    blasting away Russian SAMS means the Ukrainian Air Force can come out to play much more often.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                    • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                      Do we have any anti-radiation missiles besides HARMs? Given that's the only one in our stockpile AFAIK, I think the only inference is that it's the AGM-88 he's talking about.
                      I believe that's it.

                      There was Shrike and Standard ARM but they were withdrawn decades ago. I can't imagine, even if they were put into storage, that they'd be serviceable.

                      It's almost certainly HARM, most likely the oldest ones in the inventory.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by astralis View Post

                        again, :)

                        also the training as well. Lots of work.

                        this is huge because up until now, the Ukrainians have HIMARS as a low-rent Air Force.

                        blasting away Russian SAMS means the Ukrainian Air Force can come out to play much more often.
                        Like the quartet of Macedonian Su-25s that "mysteriously" vanished?
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                          I believe that's it.

                          There was Shrike and Standard ARM but they were withdrawn decades ago. I can't imagine, even if they were put into storage, that they'd be serviceable.

                          It's almost certainly HARM, most likely the oldest ones in the inventory.
                          What about russian-made ARMs? Anything that, say, the poles or another old russian client might still have had in inventory?

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                          • Today is one of those days when being on this forum is SO COOL.
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                            • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post

                              What about russian-made ARMs? Anything that, say, the poles or another old russian client might still have had in inventory?
                              Well, I don't think non-US, foreign-owned ARMs would be part of a presidential drawdown package... so again, the implication is AGM-88. And the announcement came on the heels of photographic evidence of HARM debris being posted up on Telegram...
                              Last edited by Ironduke; 09 Aug 22,, 13:56.
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                              • Shrike & Standard left US Service in 1992...Israel shortly thereafter. They were the only users...though a few Shrikes were given to the RAF for The Falklands.

                                The Russian Kh-31 was never used by Ukraine but there are some current operators we could have sweet talked into selling some to us for transfer Ukraine. They do work on the MiG-29 BTW. The newer Kh-58 was never used by the Ukrainians but it is intended for Suckois and only the MiG-29.

                                My supposition is they are HARMs with either a retrofit Luftwaffe MiG-29 kit or we have designs for the same retrofit set and built them here.
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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