2022-2024 Russo-Ukrainian War

[tbm3fan]

The Taliban kept fighting because we didn't butcher them. Timur and Genghis conquered Afghanistan through mountains of skulls. We butchered the Japanese.

Butchering the Japanese made no dent in their determination to fight to the death. I strongly believe, and my father who was there strongly believes, that the Home Islands would have fought to the death just like on Iwo and Okinawa if not for the A bomb. So, yes, we would have wiped out the Japanese but US casualties easily in the high hundred thousands with support of the people back home cratering. The Japanese intended to kill as many Americans as they could, despite their losses, and they were doing a damn good job at it.

As for me, I already told you. Get as many civilians to safety as I can, then I will try to save my army to fight another day. Failing any strategic or tactical reason to continue fighting, I surrender and tried to drain as much resources as I can from the Russians in feeding me and guarding me.

I realized later that I needed to be more specific in this part and that was to require that you take off your military hat and behave more like a civilian who is presented this situation.

Of that 100 Ukrainian funerals, only about 30-35 are combat casualties. The rest are old, women, and children. If the Ukrainians are ready to pay that price, so be it but outsiders should not be so gleeful to put 65-70 old, women, and children to death just to see one Russian Flag draped coffin.

You point out what my second question was getting at. Do they just roll over and accept their fate once again for some, and their new fate for the younger generation, to avoid deaths or do they resist despite them. This question of what to do could be posed to everyone here.

In all honesty, I wish Putin would just call it a win and go home. I see nothing but blood in the next 20-30 years no matter who wins.

Agree

[zraver]

Sir, the area off of roads are a mud bog...they are stuck on hard surfaces. I am not sure if 2S1s & 2S3s can fire anywhere accurately without digging in their spades. The M109A5 and Pzh 2000 all have suspension systems which can fire without digging in. Don't know if that is a reason.

But, yeah, it is odd.

Maybe it's there and we are not seeing it. A) Most of the footage is cell phone cameras. Cell jammers would blind them. B) if whole grid squares go boom, whose left to report? Russians seem to be bogging down in urban areas but open terrain seems to favor them. Maybe all the witnesses to the artillery are ghosts?

[Officer of Engineers]

Butchering the Japanese made no dent in their determination to fight to the death. I strongly believe, and my father who was there strongly believes, that the Home Islands would have fought to the death just like on Iwo and Okinawa if not for the A bomb. So, yes, we would have wiped out the Japanese but US casualties easily in the high hundred thousands with support of the people back home cratering. The Japanese intended to kill as many Americans as they could, despite their losses, and they were doing a damn good job at it.

Then why did they surrender after the nukes? They learned we could butcher them withou losing a single one of our own.

I realized later that I needed to be more specific in this part and that was to require that you take off your military hat and behave more like a civilian who is presented this situation.

Then I stop being who I am and become someone I don't know.

You point out what my second question was getting at. Do they just roll over and accept their fate once again for some, and their new fate for the younger generation, to avoid deaths or do they resist despite them. This question of what to do could be posed to everyone here.

Do I let the Orcs eat my wife and kids because I'm too far away killing Orcs? I cannot answer for every one but I'm damned sure I need to get them out of harm's way before I start doing stupid.

[tantalus]

Good to see some europeans wake up to the magnitude of the situation and allow a the SWIFT ban option come into focus. Perhaps watching the russians threaten Sweden and Finland over NATO membership will help.

Anyone else notice now that EVERYONE has stopped talking american politics, ALL are contributing to a valuable thread.

Go figure...

More broadly I have seen many instances online of people being affected by this invasion and I hope there will be positives in waking up and maybe even unfiying some smart and honourable people around the world that the lazy peace we have enjoyed needs more active participation from here on out. We should be slow to not underestimate the impact that live streaming of 40 plus million ukrainians having their futures stolen from them will have on people around the world in the years and decades to come.

Glory to the Ukraine.

[tantalus]

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/sta...LANqVseoj5VAeA

Apparently they pulled the old man alive from the wreck

Edit. Just to clarify seems this may be a Ukrainian vehicle (although I can't tell due to online misinformation accounts), unclear if accident or saboteurs controlled it if a ukrainian vehicle...

[NUS]

https://youtu.be/3xInOa35CMU at 1:30

It happened in Kiev. No idea what happened and why Ukranians shoot each other, but Russian armor is yet to enter Kiev. So let's classify it as a traffic incident with brave and noble protectors of democracy.

[tbm3fan]

Then why did they surrender after the nukes? They learned we could butcher them withou losing a single one of our own.

Well they, the military heads, did not surrender. The Emperor made the decision where an attempt was made to stop it. Had that succeeded the war would have continued, they would have seen no more A bombs, and now we would have had to either invade or...? We got lucky there because of them having an Emperor who they considered God. Had they had no Emperor then the military would no doubt handily have killed anyone thinking of surrender to continue butchering on both sides. Suffice it to say the Japanese were a very unique situation at the time where Western thinking had no bearing.

Then I stop being who I am and become someone I don't know.

Understandable. Training is training and once ingrained can be hard to disassociate from it.

Do I let the Orcs eat my wife and kids because I'm too far away killing Orcs? I cannot answer for every one but I'm damned sure I need to get them out of harm's way before I start doing stupid.

Ah, here is what you would do as for everyone else it is their personal decision.

Thanks for your input.

[tbm3fan]

Unsure of the veracity of these stories but interesting read...a hero Fulcrum Pilot, an Air India pilot doing a Leeroy Jenkins & the Japanese Ambassador to Ukraine channeling his family's background.

I saw that and immediately thought of Snoopy vs the Red Barron and where did Snoopy have an intact runway to use assuming the Red Barron eliminated runways early on.

[TopHatter]

So let's classify it as a traffic incident with brave and noble protectors of democracy.

If you're trying to stir shit up, you've picked the wrong place to do it.

[Officer of Engineers]

Well they, the military heads, did not surrender. The Emperor made the decision where an attempt was made to stop it. Had that succeeded the war would have continued, they would have seen no more A bombs, and now we would have had to either invade or...? We got lucky there because of them having an Emperor who they considered God. Had they had no Emperor then the military would no doubt handily have killed anyone thinking of surrender to continue butchering on both sides. Suffice it to say the Japanese were a very unique situation at the time where Western thinking had no bearing.

Not true for the nukes. We had one more device and within 6 months 10-20 devices. Op DOWNFALL was obsolete right after Hiroshima. MacArthur, after he stopped being pissed off about being kept in the dark about the nukes, asked when he could get some. The ideas were endless, everyone being ignorant about fallout. A Japanese opposed landing? Nuke it open.

Also, you're ignoring Stalin's entry into the war. If there is one army that scares the shit of the IJA, it's the Red Army. They saw the butcher's bill at Berlin and got a taste of it in Manchuria. There was zero doubt that Stalin was fully prepared to bleed each and every single Japanese and there was nothing the IJA could do to stop him.

[Red Team]

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/wjbzhd/2022...10645790.shtml

A pretty drastic about-face by the People's Republic of China.

On February 25, 2022, State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi had a telephone conversation with British Foreign Secretary Truss, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Borrell, and French Presidential Adviser Bona, focusing on in-depth exchanges of views on the situation in Ukraine. Wang Yi expounded China's basic position on the Ukraine issue, which is summarized in the following five points:

1. China firmly advocates respecting and safeguarding the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries and earnestly abide by the purposes and principles of the UN Charter. This position is consistent and clear, and it applies equally to Ukraine.

2. China advocates a common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security concept. It is believed that the security of one country cannot be at the expense of compromising the security of other countries, and regional security cannot be guaranteed by strengthening or even expanding military groups. The legitimate security concerns of States should be respected. Under the circumstance of five consecutive rounds of NATO's eastward expansion, Russia's legitimate security demands should be taken seriously and properly addressed.

3. The Chinese side has been paying attention to the evolution of the Ukraine issue. The current situation is something we do not want to see. It is imperative that all parties exercise necessary restraint to prevent the situation in Ukraine from worsening or even going out of control. The safety of life and property of civilians should be effectively guaranteed, especially to prevent large-scale humanitarian crises.

4. China supports and encourages all diplomatic efforts that are conducive to a peaceful settlement of the Ukrainian crisis. China welcomes direct dialogue and negotiation between Russia and Ukraine as soon as possible. The evolution of the Ukraine issue has complex historical latitudes and latitudes. Ukraine should be a bridge between East and West, not a frontier of great power confrontation. China also supports the equal dialogue between the EU and Russia on European security issues, so as to eventually form a balanced, effective and sustainable European security mechanism.

5. The Chinese side believes that the UN Security Council should play a constructive role in solving the Ukraine issue, and should focus on regional peace and stability and the general security of all countries. Actions taken by the Security Council should cool tensions rather than fuel them, and should facilitate a diplomatic solution rather than further escalation. In view of this, China has always disapproved of Security Council resolutions that frequently invoke Chapter VII, which authorizes the use of force and sanctions.

Wang Yi said that as a permanent member of the Security Council and a responsible major country, China has always faithfully fulfilled its international obligations and played a constructive role in maintaining world peace and stability. When it comes to peace and security, China is a major power with the best record. We have never invaded other countries, never engaged in proxy wars, never sought spheres of influence, and never participated in military bloc confrontations. China adheres to the path of peaceful development and is committed to building a community with a shared future for mankind. We will continue to firmly oppose all hegemonic powers and firmly safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of developing countries, especially small and medium-sized countries.

[TopHatter]

It looks like the Ghost of Kyiv is a fraudulent story, some War Thunder asshole made it up for clicks.

[Red Team]

It looks like the Ghost of Kyiv is a fraudulent story, some War Thunder asshole made it up for clicks.

Not surprising. The whole mythos behind it read like an Ace Combat game. Can't help but admit it was a compelling story though.

[InExile]

Some reports this morning of Russian officials making threats against Sweden and Finland if they attempt to join NATO.

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...ces-if-finland

This is a point I have raised earlier in this thread. Will Putin be content with somewhat restoring the borders of the Soviet Union, minus the Baltics? Or is he seeking to go further in rolling back the entire security order in Europe that was established after the end of the Cold War?

Putin does seem to have declined the past few years, one must wonder if he is still the rational actor that he may have been thought once. One can hope that he realizes that going head on with NATO will end badly for Russia even if it threatens the world with nuclear Armageddon.

Too soon to worry about that yet?

[InExile]

https://www.theamericanconservative....ussia-ukraine/

I do not agree with everything in this article, but I do wonder. Would things have worked out better if Ukraine had been told in clear terms that they were on their own? The West could not and would not support them in a confrontation with Russia. Perhaps that may have let the Ukrainians work out a deal with Russia with more realistic expectations; the author mentions 'Finlandization'; without it coming to this.