2022-2024 Russo-Ukrainian War

[Officer of Engineers]

It's appreciated. Really. I do like Canada,

It wasn't just Canada. British, German, Belgian, and Dutch planes doing training in Newfoundland took up stations hours after the 11 Sept attacks.

For what the French said about Iraq it was very hypocritical of them to ask our help in Libya, and worse of Obama that he was manipulated into doing the exact same thing he ran against his predecessor for doing. Honestly it was not a month or two later there were Europeans out there criticizing us of warmongering in Libya.

There really was no one else but the US who can provide the expeditionary heavy lifting. And it was more Italian than French who were pushing for intervention. The Italians were receiving the bulk of Lybian refugees with the French coming in second. It was decfded it was a hell of a lot cheaper to keep Lybians in Lybia than to put them on social welfare rows in Europe. However, no question it was screwed up. The Europeans and the Americans did not want to be seen as leading the attack against Lybia, so they put a Canadian General in charge.

IPerception is a lot of reality. Don't you think a Russian leader (Putin won't be in power one day either through retirement, overthrow, or death) would pick the weakest point to attack and do it?

I want everyone to clearly understand what we are talking about. If we get into a shooting war with Putin, IT WILL GO NUCLEAR! We cannot stop the loss of the Baltic States without nukes and Russian armies cannot escape destruction from NATO counter-attacks without nukes. There is zero ways for either side to achieve a conventional military victory.

Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine ain't worth WWIII. The Baltic States are. Why? They signed on the dotted line.

[rj1]

It wasn't just Canada. British, German, Belgian, and Dutch planes doing training in Newfoundland took up stations hours after the 11 Sept attacks.

Excellent. Keep those planes in good working order if the rest of NATO need to rely on them.

https://www.hilltimes.com/2022/02/09...2020-21/343040

There really was no one else but the US who can provide the expeditionary heavy lifting.

You're not filling me with warm feelings.

[Gun Grape]

Isn't that a bit too late? SWSNBN is staying in the US and that is that.

I'll make a deal.

If Canada will takeTed Cruz back, I will never again post a pic of SWSNBN on the WAB again.

And I'll download all of Justin Beiber and Anne Murrays songs on my phone

[TopHatter]

I'll make a deal.

If Canada will takeTed Cruz back, I will never again post a pic of SWSNBN on the WAB again.

And I'll download all of Justin Beiber and Anne Murrays songs on my phone

You leave Anne Murray alone!

Who cares about Celine? She's safely trapped within Vegas, so it's their problem.

[Gun Grape]

How about

Carly Rae Jepsen and Nickleback

[TopHatter]

How about

Carly Rae Jepsen and Nickleback

Bleh.

Anyway, I think if Moscow was going to invade they would've done it by now.

[Officer of Engineers]

I'll make a deal.

If Canada will takeTed Cruz back, I will never again post a pic of SWSNBN on the WAB again.

And I'll download all of Justin Beiber and Anne Murrays songs on my phone

Look, we took back Margret Trudeau and kept Justine Trudeau. What more do you want?

[TopHatter]

From cyber attacks to bomb shelters, boxer-turned-mayor Klitschko readies Kyiv's defences

KYIV (Reuters) - In his mayoral office, former heavyweight boxing champion Vitaly Klitschko waves a stylus pen at a screen on the wall - allowing him to monitor Kyiv's electricity grid and water supplies in case of a Russian cyber attack.

Klitschko, who has been mayor of Ukraine's capital city since 2014, is now readying its defences, inspecting Soviet era bomb shelters and encouraging citizens, including his brother and fellow heavyweight champion Wladimir, to become reservists.

Ukraine is bracing itself for a possible military offensive from Russia, which has massed tens of thousands of troops near Ukraine's borders in recent weeks.

The 50-year-old Klitschko, who was known as "Dr Ironfist" in his fighting days, says there is no panic in the city, but citizens still have to be ready for the worst case.

"That's why 5,000 bunkers are already prepared in our hometown. Over 2,000,000 people can be saved there," he told Reuters in his office in city hall.

"Concerning the current situation, I believe there is not a single citizen in our city and our country that doesn't speak about the current situation. Of course, the whole society is quite worried," he said.

"We don't want war. But, if it's about our territorial integrity, when the question about our independence arrives, then we don't have another choice. We have to defend our country, our homes, our families, our values."

Russia denies planning any sort of military attack.

Klitschko said that the bombardment of civilian populations would in any case be unlikely, though U.S. officials this weekend said mass civilian casualties could not be ruled out in the worst case.

Ukraine has also warned about the prospects of cyber attacks on key infrastructure, either as part of a military offensive or as a way of causing instability and hitting the country's financial system.

Russia has denied any role in previous cyber attacks on Ukraine and other targets.

"We are protecting all of the infrastructure objects. Now, we have a detailed plan of how we can protect everything from a possible attack on Ukraine," Klitschko said. "We have a concrete plan, we have an action plan of what should we done. We hope that nothing will happen, but we have to be ready anyways."

His brother Wladimir enlisted in Ukraine's reserve army last week. Both brothers have longstanding ties to Germany and speak German - but Vitaly has not been shy to criticise Berlin's reluctance to supply defensive weapons to Ukraine.

He called a recent shipment of 5,000 Germany military helmets a "joke".

"Political support, financial support, and defensive weapons are very important to us because we have to defend our country with modern arms," he told Reuters, speaking in German.
__________

[rj1]

There's finally a diplomatic plan from the French and Germans: get both sides back on the Minsk II agreement. Problem is the how and the Ukrainians say it won't work.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-minsk-accords

The next day in Kyiv, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, reaffirmed to Macron what he has been saying for months: Ukraine is committed to fulfilling the Minsk accords, as long as this happens in the way Kyiv interprets them.

Privately, however, Ukrainian officials are more downbeat. “Minsk is impossible to fulfil. It would lead to the destruction of Ukraine as a state if we did,” said one high-ranking government official.

And that ladies and gentlemen is why you need smart people running your country's foreign policy.

The Minsk accords were signed in February 2015, after a 16-hour overnight negotiating session in the Belarusian capital. Of the four leaders involved: Russia’s Vladimir Putin, Ukraine’s Petro Poroshenko, France’s François Hollande and Germany’s Angela Merkel, only Putin is still in office.

The document called for an immediate ceasefire in the conflict in eastern Ukraine, and did bring major military hostilities to an end, but the conflict has continued to simmer and little progress has been made on any of the political steps.

The agreement calls for the withdrawal of foreign troops and mercenaries, as well as constitutional reform in Ukraine that would provide for decentralisation and elections in the current territories, which are financed and administered by Moscow.

For a long time, the main stumbling block was over sequencing. Kyiv insisted the separatists should first disarm, while Moscow demanded political reform first.

There is little appetite in Ukrainian society for any Minsk-based settlement that could give parliamentary seats to Russia’s proxies, and essentially give Moscow a say in the running of Ukraine.

There is also the fact that seven years have elapsed since the accords were signed. A de facto line of control now snakes through the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, and since the coronavirus pandemic hit, crossings have fallen dramatically in number.

“The people on the other side have spent eight years being subjected to propaganda about Ukraine, most of them have been given Russian passports. Their leaders are Russian citizens. How are we expected now to integrate them back, and have their representatives sit in Kyiv? It doesn’t make sense,” said the high-ranking official.

Russia has given out more than 700,000 passports to residents of the territories, according to a recent statement by a Russian official.

Is this official tacitly admitting Crimea and Donbass are never coming back to Ukraine?

Critics of the Minsk agreement say Poroshenko signed it in 2015 because a gun was pointed at Ukraine’s head, as Kyiv’s forces faced total military defeat from an enemy that was receiving covert support from the Kremlin.

“From my point of view, the Minsk agreements were born dead,” said Volodymyr Ariev, an MP from Poroshenko’s party. “The conditions were always impossible to implement. We understood it clearly at the time, but we signed it to buy time for Ukraine: to have time to restore our government, our army, intelligence and security system.”

Onward to the next Punic War!

He said many of the points in Minsk were incompatible with the Ukrainian constitution, and that with Russia, Ukraine could not be expected to fulfil its demands.

“Macron cannot compel Ukraine to do it Moscow’s way,” said Ariev.

Asked during his press conference with Macron about Ukraine’s reluctance to implement the Minsk accords, Putin used a phrase that some interpreted as carrying sinister undertones: “Like it or not, you’ll have to tolerate it, my beauty.”

The next day, Zelenskiy responded that Ukraine was indeed “tolerant”, as it put up with so much from Russia. But keen to avoid a Russian invasion, as well as to remove the looming threat of one which is eroding Ukraine’s economy, Zelenskiy is also pushing Minsk as a viable solution, at least in public.

Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Zelenskiy’s chief of staff, said the accords could still provide a viable roadmap if interpreted correctly.

“Within the Minsk framework it is really possible to pass to peace through any difficulties, but the steps and their content can only be those that fully respect the sovereignty of Ukraine,” he said.

[Albany Rifles]

This warning was stated initially on 24 JAN 22 and reinforced ever since.

Almost 3 weeks ago.

Similar messages were published regarding Afghanistan in early May 2021 and reiterated continuously.

Hopefully people will listen this time.

Ukraine – Level 4: Do Not Travel


Home | News & Events | Ukraine – Level 4: Do Not TravelUkraine Travel Advisory

Do not travel to Ukraine due to the increased threats of Russian military action and COVID-19. Exercise increased caution in Ukraine due to crime and civil unrest. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory.

Country Summary:

On January 23, 2022, the Department of State authorized the voluntary departure of U.S. direct hire employees (USDH) and ordered the departure of eligible family members (EFM) from Embassy Kyiv due to the continued threat of Russian military action. U.S. citizens in Ukraine should consider departing now using commercial or other privately available transportation options.

There are reports Russia is planning significant military action against Ukraine. The security conditions, particularly along Ukraine’s borders, in Russia-occupied Crimea, and in Russia-controlled eastern Ukraine, are unpredictable and can deteriorate with little notice. Demonstrations, which have turned violent at times, regularly occur throughout Ukraine, including in Kyiv.

U.S. citizens in Ukraine should be aware that Russian military action anywhere in Ukraine would severely impact the U.S. Embassy’s ability to provide consular services, including assistance to U.S. citizens in departing Ukraine. For more information, please review what the U.S. government can and cannot do to assist you in a crisis overseas.

The Department asks all U.S. citizens in Ukraine to complete an online form so that we may better communicate with you. This is especially important if you plan to remain in Ukraine.

Crimea – Do Not Travel

Russia occupies and has attempted to annex Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula, and there is extensive Russian Federation military presence in Crimea. Occupation authorities continue to abuse and arbitrarily imprison foreigners and the local population, particularly individuals who are seen as opposing Russia’s occupation of the peninsula. The U.S. government prohibits its employees from traveling to Crimea and is unable to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Crimea.

Donetsk and Luhansk – Do Not Travel

Russia-led forces control areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, where the ongoing armed conflict has resulted in more than 14,000 deaths. Individuals, including U.S. citizens, have been threatened, detained, or kidnapped for hours or days after being stopped at checkpoints controlled by Russia-led forces. The U.S. government restricts USDH from traveling to the eastern parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts and adjacent regions, which limits the ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in these regions.

Crime targeting foreigners and property is common. Politically targeted assassinations and bombings have also occurred. There are reports of violent attacks on minority groups and police by radical groups.

COVID – Do Not Travel

Visit the Embassy’s COVID-19 page for more information on COVID-19 and related restrictions and conditions in Ukraine. Read the Department of State’s COVID-19 page before you plan any international travel.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice for Ukraine, indicating a very high level of COVID-19 in the country. Your risk of contracting COVID-19 and developing severe symptoms is lower if you are fully vaccinated with an FDA authorized vaccine. Before planning any international travel, please review the CDC’s specific recommendations for fully vaccinated and unvaccinated travelers.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) prohibits U.S. civil aviation from flying in the Dnipro (UKDV) Flight Information Region – Ukraine airspace that covers the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk. For more information, U.S. citizens should consult the Federal Aviation Administration’s Prohibitions, Restrictions and Notices.

If you are currently in Ukraine or plan to travel there:

• Read the Department’s country information page:
• Familiarize yourself with information on what the U.S. government can and cannot do to assist you in a crisis overseas.
• Have a contingency plan in place that does not rely on U.S. government assistance. Review the Traveler’s Checklist.
• Visit our website for Travel to High-Risk Areas.
• Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your contingency plans based on the new information.
• Ensure travel documents are valid and easily accessible.
• See the U.S. Embassy’s website regarding COVID-19.
• Visit the CDC’s website on Travel and COVID-19.
• Get a COVID vaccine to facilitate your travel
• Understand the COVID testing and vaccine requirements for all countries that you will transit through to your destination.
• Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
• Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
• Review the Crime and Safety Report for Ukraine.
• Avoid demonstrations and crowds.

[Albany Rifles]

Message published on 29 JAN 22 to Americans explaining what the requirements for land border crossings around the nations which border Ukraine.

The warnings have been issued. We will not see and armed standoff between US & Russian troops to get Americans out because that means we will be at war with Russia.

I really hope folks read & heed...or accept the consequences.

Message to US Citizens: Ukraine Land Border


Home | News & Events | Message to US Citizens: Ukraine Land BorderThe security situation in Ukraine continues to be unpredictable due to the increased threats of Russian military action and can deteriorate with little notice. U.S citizens in Ukraine should consider departing now using commercial or other privately available transportation options. Please see information on What the Department of State Can and Can’t Do in a Crisis.

U.S. citizens wishing to depart Ukraine by land have several options. However, due to ongoing COVID-19 restrictions, U.S. citizens should be prepared to comply with country-specific entry requirements, which may differ from the entry requirements for travelers arriving by plane.

If you are considering departing Ukraine by land, please see country-specific information below. Note entry requirements/restrictions can change without notice. Make sure you verify the latest entry requirements before traveling.

Poland: Due to current COVID-19 regulations, U.S. citizens must apply for permission for humanitarian reasons to enter Poland at the land border. Please contact +48 22 500 4068, +48 22 500 4568, or +48 22 500 5468 by phone, or [email protected] by email for further information. The U.S. Embassy and Consulate in Poland’s website describes entry and exit requirements (located under the header “Entry and Exit Requirements”). The Polish Border Guard’s website also provides relevant information (in Polish).

Slovakia: Vaccinated U.S. citizens can enter by land. The U.S. Embassy in Slovakia’s website describes entry and exit requirements (located under the header “Entry and Exit Requirements”). The Slovak Government’s COVID-19 page also provides relevant information.

Hungary: U.S. citizens can enter Hungary with proof of vaccination, a negative COVID-19 test, or proof of recovery from COVID-19. The U.S. Embassy in Hungary’s website describes entry and exit requirements (located under the header “Entry and Exit Requirement”). The Hungarian Police’s website also provides relevant information.

Romania: Vaccinated and unvaccinated U.S. citizens may enter Romania by land. The U.S. Embassy in Romania’s webpage (located under the header “Entry and Exit Requirements”). The Romanian Border Police’s website also provides relevant information.

Moldova: U.S. citizens can enter Moldova, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated, although travel restrictions will vary depending on their vaccination status. The U.S. Embassy in Moldova’s COVID-19 website describes entry and exit requirements in full under the header “Entry and Exit Requirements.” The Moldovan Border Police’s website also provides relevant information (in Moldovan).

Important note: travelers should not enter Moldova through the breakaway region of Transnistria, where the U.S. Embassy has limited access and may not be able to provide the full range of assistance to U.S. citizens. The main Moldova-Ukraine border crossing south of Transnistria is Palanca – Maiaki Udobnoe. North of Transnistria, the first Moldova-Ukraine border crossing is Otaci – Moghileov-Podolsk.

Travelers entering Moldova through Transnistria will need to subsequently register their entry with Moldovan government authorities and may be subject to additional checks by the “authorities” of the Transnistria region. Travelers should note the Chisinau-Odesa train goes through Transnistria as well. More information on Transnistria can be found here.


The European Union: The European Union also maintains a website with all travel restrictions for member states.

U.S Embassy Kyiv remains open and able to process U.S. passports and Consular Reports of Birth Abroad and can also provide loans to U.S. citizens who cannot afford to purchase a commercial ticket to the United States at this time. If you are a U.S. citizen or parent of a U.S. citizen minor and delaying your departure because of your non-U.S. citizen spouse, your minor child, or you do not have a valid U.S. travel document, please contact us.

The Department asks all U.S. citizens in Ukraine to complete an online form so that we may better communicate with you. This is especially important if you plan to remain in Ukraine. Finally, as noted in our previous message, commercial flights from Ukraine’s international airports are available.

Additional Actions to Take:

• Visit the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv’s webpage to view the most recent safety and security alerts for U.S. citizens.
• Regularly monitor local and international news and social media news channels.
• Ensure travel documents are valid and easily accessible.
• Review your personal security plans and always have a contingency plan in place that does not rely on U.S. government assistance.
• Get a COVID vaccine to facilitate your travel.
• Enroll in the Department of State’s Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP). STEP enrollment gives you the latest security updates and makes it easier for the U.S. Embassy to contact you in an emergency.
• Regularly monitor the State Department’s website for current Travel Advisories. Read the Country Specific Information for Ukraine. For additional information, refer to the “Traveler’s Checklist” on the State Department’s website.

For Assistance:

• U.S. Embassy Kyiv, Ukraine 
  (380-44) 521 – 5000
  [email protected]    
  https://ua.usembassy.gov    
• State Department – Consular Affairs 
  888-407-4747 or 202-501-4444
• Ukraine Country Information 
• Enroll in Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts. 
• Follow us on Facebook and Twitter

[rj1]

You can get a brief appreciation for how bureaucratic things like that are. For example:

Important note: travelers should not enter Moldova through the breakaway region of Transnistria, where the U.S. Embassy has limited access and may not be able to provide the full range of assistance to U.S. citizens. The main Moldova-Ukraine border crossing south of Transnistria is Palanca – Maiaki Udobnoe. North of Transnistria, the first Moldova-Ukraine border crossing is Otaci – Moghileov-Podolsk.

Travelers entering Moldova through Transnistria will need to subsequently register their entry with Moldovan government authorities and may be subject to additional checks by the “authorities” of the Transnistria region. Travelers should note the Chisinau-Odesa train goes through Transnistria as well. More information on Transnistria can be found here.

I can imagine a higher-up bureaucrat reading that and then saying "add quotation marks around the word 'authorities'. We do not acknowledge their existence and should not concede any action they take is rightful."

[TopHatter]

Putin's Plan

Let's hear the comments!

Welcome back, hope things are going well for you

[Firestorm]

I know the situation is far from funny but Liz Truss did provide us wit some laughs nonetheless.

Russia’s Sergei Lavrov describes Liz Truss talks as ‘speaking to a deaf person’ as Ukraine tensions escalate

Journalist at the Moscow based Kommersant newspaper, Elena Chernenko, said Mr Lavrov asked if Ms Truss would “recognise Russia’s sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh oblasts?” She replied the UK would “never” do so, before she was told they’re not in Ukraine.

It’s not the first time Ms Truss has been the target of Russian ire. Last week she was mocked by Russia’s foreign ministry after saying the UK would send aid to our “Baltic allies across the Black Sea”.

“Mrs Truss, your knowledge of history is nothing compared to your knowledge of geography,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, wrote in a blog post. “If anyone needs saving from anything, it’s the world, from the stupidity and ignorance of British politicians.”

The UK foreign office needs to sit their Foreign Secretary down with a map of Europe and explain a few things.

[Albany Rifles]

You can get a brief appreciation for how bureaucratic things like that are. For example:



I can imagine a higher-up bureaucrat reading that and then saying "add quotation marks around the word 'authorities'. We do not acknowledge their existence and should not concede any action they take is rightful."

It's not grounded in bureaucracy...it's grounded in the border disputes between Ukraine, Moldova, Russia and the province of Transnistria. It is unclear who exactly is in charge. And the US government does not recognize the independence of Transnistria...so if an American enters there it is very unclear just exactly what the Americans government can do.

Not everything is grounded in some great governmental bureaucracy.