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  • Originally posted by Amled View Post

    You have to take into consideration, the person making the statements….Lavrov!
    The same foreign Minister Lavrov who at the start of the conflict/War/Invasion/”Special Military Operation” characterized it as an “anomaly”!
    Which as soon as the “anomaly” had been resolved, that the Ukrainians would march with their Russian brothers into a golden future!
    So that whatever that bag of wind has to say, has to be taken with more than modicum of salt
    !

    https://tass.com/politics/1424207
    Oh yes always plenty of salt! It's not that I take him at his word, nor even think Russia has the ability to knock over Ukraine anytime soon. I am troubled however at how stratespheric the level of lies are that so easily flow from the Russian government.

    Russia left Ukraine and the West nowhere to go, no reasonable de-escalation avenue, no way to engage with Russia as anything other than an enemy, for who knows how long.

    What are they going to do, walk back all the statements they've made about Ukraine someday? They can't. They've committed themselves indefinitely to upholding their own lies forever simply because admittting they were wrong about "Nazi Ukraine" would invalidate their barbarous invasion. Not the kind of thing the fascist regime in Moscow could survive politically.

    This is what concerns me about the future.

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    • Trainload of Polish PT-91s heading to Ukraine.

      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post

        Waste of GMLRS rounds. That targets requires something much bigger, Yes even bigger than ATACMS.

        I bet the Col could get a Eng platoon with some plywood, 2x4s and quick setting cement and have those holes patched in no time at all. In the short run 2x4s and plywood or steel plate will cover those holes to allow trucks to pass
        How safe is it to drive a T-72 or BMP-2 across a bridge stitched with 100s of such holes?
        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

          The logistician in me cries looking at this photo.
          The scrap metal merchant in me salivates at the potential profit.
          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            Artillery is an area weapon.
            Of course. Thing is PGM fuses etc are a huge force multiplier. Suddenly you need less guns (and rounds) to do the same amount of damage. Fuse based designs are particularity versatile because you don't have to expend them unless you want to during training/practice. You can still fire 'dumb'.

            PGMS are also the reason the number of artillery pieces has fallen so dramatically in western armies in recent years and for the shift away from towed to self propelled artillery. In a peer on peer war where both sides have 'adequate' supplies of PGMS, a towed artillery battery risks becoming a life altering experience for the gunners fairly quickly.
            Last edited by Monash; 26 Jul 22,, 01:01.
            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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            • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
              How safe is it to drive a T-72 or BMP-2 across a bridge stitched with 100s of such holes?
              That will depend on how close those holes are. With what you've shown me, I would have no qualms just using steel street plates and moivng an entire division across. Plywood and cement would take 2-3 hours per hole.
              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 26 Jul 22,, 00:51.
              Chimo

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              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                That will depend on how close those holes are. With what you've shown me, I would have no qualms just using steel street plates and moivng an entire division across. Plywood and cement would take 2-3 hours per hole.
                The Dariivka Bridge is almost exactly 1000 feet long. The part of the span that crosses the river is about 300-400 ft long. It's a typical two-lane bridge with shoulders.

                The damage in the video I posted looks to be caused by 1 HIMARS salvo of 6 rockets. Would the bridge be perfectly safe for this division, after, say, 50 more salvos of 6 rockets each?
                Last edited by Ironduke; 26 Jul 22,, 01:20.
                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                  The Dariivka Bridge is almost exactly 1000 feet long. The part of the span that crosses the river is about 300-400 ft long. It's a typical two-lane bridge with shoulders.

                  The damage in the video I posted looks to be caused by 1 HIMARS salvo of 6 rockets. Would the bridge be perfectly safe for this division, after, say, 50 more salvos of 6 rockets each?
                  I wonder what a couple of land attack capable harpoons would do? (If some were generously donated)
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                  • The damage in the video I posted looks to be caused by 1 HIMARS salvo of 6 rockets. Would the bridge be perfectly safe for this division, after, say, 50 more salvos of 6 rockets each?
                    probably not, but that's a pretty significant expenditure of munitions that would be better served elsewhere.

                    on the other hand, if Ukraine did that to bait combat engineers to fix and then double-tapped...
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                    • Originally posted by astralis View Post

                      probably not, but that's a pretty significant expenditure of munitions that would be better served elsewhere.

                      on the other hand, if Ukraine did that to bait combat engineers to fix and then double-tapped...
                      So question. Hypothetically assuming the Ukrainians asked (on a 'special needs' basis) for a limited number bridge busting weapons they could deploy and use in short order what would be the best choice? And how many would you need to take out say two bridges similar to the ones oh, I don't know near Kherson for example. All purely hypothetical of course.
                      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                        The damage in the video I posted looks to be caused by 1 HIMARS salvo of 6 rockets. Would the bridge be perfectly safe for this division, after, say, 50 more salvos of 6 rockets each?
                        That would again depend on how you space your attacks. Personally, I would drop all 50, actually 10 salvos all aimed at the same spot and blow a slab out but as Eric said, a waste of rockets. A better use is to kill a column crossing the bridge, forcing the Russians to clear bodies and debris before they can use it. Moving a tank out of the way takes a lot more time than throwing a steel plate over a hole.
                        Chimo

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                        • Russia forcing local utility workers to repair the Antonivskyi Bridge.

                          https://news.yahoo.com/invaders-forc...ycsrp_catchall

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                          • Would they be laying down a pontoon bridge if the damaged one was still viable?

                            https://news.yahoo.com/russians-buil...130700432.html

                            When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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                            • Originally posted by Amled View Post
                              Would they be laying down a pontoon bridge if the damaged one was still viable?
                              Yes. The primary one is shown to be a target. Lay a second one down to double your LOC across the river.

                              Chimo

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                              • Another round of HIMARS strikes on the Antonivskyi Bridge this evening.
                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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