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  • Originally posted by anil View Post
    You want to see what the indian media really is, check out this funny interview. This will give a glimpse about the kind of role the it played during the indo-US nuke deal.
    Devils advocate is one of the better shows in the indian media. Used to watch it regularly for years.

    Too bad they pulled his daily India tonight segment on CNBC-18 this year. Really liked that one. Hope it comes back.

    Originally posted by anil View Post
    And India was Sold ..... (Part 3) - YouTube

    The guy in the red is a member of the hindu nationalist party, BJP. Both of them are making two different lines of arguments. The red guy is quoting from the agreement text and the interviewer is quoting "those quotes which are not quoted it the text".
    That 'guy' is Arun Shourie, a spent force since his heyday at the IE in the early 90s. Didn't you ask yourself why there is a politician there. Natually he will say what his party tells him to. This is nothing but the opposition trying to make arguments. If the BJP was in office and Bush came over with the deal i bet they would have taken it as well. And then we would have seen UPA making the same opposition along with the commies.

    The commies are the only party with an idealogical position, everybody else is a damn opportunist. Same nakra we saw with FDI this week. And we will see the same again when the nuke liability bill comes up.

    Originally posted by anil View Post
    Sadly, I see this sort of elitist english speaking interviewers making this sort of foolish arguments all the time on the indian news channels. Someone needs to shut them down but the only way it could happen is if there is a regime change.
    No, you actually don't. I wish we had more but you mostly see far worse than him. That is the sad part for me.

    Karan is the only world class presenter we have. The value of his Oxford education puts him head and shoulders over the rest.

    There is something you don't know, his critics say there are two high commissioners of Pakistan in Delhi, Karan is the second one. This is why the partisans don't like him ;)

    So it comes as no surprise to see what it says on his father's wiki page. I guess the partisans have already had a swipe at it. AFAIK he resigned in '59 as the then govt would not approve his requests. His father did not play a role in the '62 war.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Dec 12,, 23:33.

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    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      I've been arguing for years that India would be better served if you clean up your power grid first. Your transmission losses are horrendous, never mind straight theft. Getting more nuclear reactors before cleaning your powergrid would mean those reactors would be sitting idle with the lines cannot handle the power transmissions.

      Taking look at your current power outputs, recovering even half of your losses would give you time to avoid the NSG altogether.
      You have to account for politicos that 'gift' power to constituents. If farmers cannot pump water and have a failed harvest we end up with suicides.

      That along with theft makes up the bulk of losses. This is an unmentioned subsidy.

      It will not go away even with nuke power so we have to grow the pie.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Dec 12,, 00:07.

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      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
        So it comes as no surprise to see what it says on his father's wiki page. I guess the partisans have already had a swipe at it. AFAIK he resigned in '59 as the then govt would not approve his requests. His father did not play a role in the '62 war.[/I]
        I did not see the video linked by anil. Whoever has said the above has no idea what they are talking about. The COAS who resigned (temporarily) in 1959 because of the pigheadedness of Menon and Nehru was General KS Thimayya, one of the finest Generals the IA has seen. Gen P.N. Thapar was the COAS during the 1962 war, and resigned after the defeat.

        As for Karan Thapar, the description of his being the "second Pakistani High Commissioner in New Delhi" is very apt.
        Last edited by Firestorm; 08 Dec 12,, 01:59.

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        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          I've been arguing for years that India would be better served if you clean up your power grid first. Your transmission losses are horrendous, never mind straight theft. Getting more nuclear reactors before cleaning your powergrid would mean those reactors would be sitting idle with the lines cannot handle the power transmissions.

          Taking look at your current power outputs, recovering even half of your losses would give you time to avoid the NSG altogether.
          Improving transmission efficiency would require a massive investment to replace the creaking old infrastructure. Politicians find it much cheaper and more politically rewarding to announce the construction of new power plants in front of the power-starved voters.

          In any case, India's power shortfall is so huge, merely reducing transmission losses is never going to be enough.

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          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
            You have to account for politicos that 'gift' power to constituents. If farmers cannot pump water and have a failed harvest we end up with suicides.

            That along with theft makes up the bulk of losses. This is an unmentioned subsidy.

            It will not go away even with nuke power so we have to grow the pie.
            Indian agriculture needs massive scale reform. Farming needs to be made profitable again.
            "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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            • Double Edge,
              The india US nuke deal might be scrapped or might go into a permanent limbo over discussions if the BJP comes to power. I see a similar happening with the FDI. The division is that strong and there will be revenge. Recall how the SP came to power and undid almost everything done by the BSP.

              This is what happens when a so-called majority party storms its bills by exploiting coalition politics.

              And oh yes, Karan Thapar is a donkey

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              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                You have to account for politicos that 'gift' power to constituents. If farmers cannot pump water and have a failed harvest we end up with suicides.
                One mess leading to another. This goes beyond 123 and the NSG exempt and nothing the NPT members can do about it.

                Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                That along with theft makes up the bulk of losses. This is an unmentioned subsidy.
                Which makes absolutely no incentive on the part of the power supplier to upgrade his products. If you're stealing from me 24/7, why should I care about the daily brownout and weekly blackout?

                Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                It will not go away even with nuke power so we have to grow the pie.
                Problem is that your pie dish is cracked, getting brittle, falling apart, and it ain't bigger than before.


                Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                Improving transmission efficiency would require a massive investment to replace the creaking old infrastructure. Politicians find it much cheaper and more politically rewarding to announce the construction of new power plants in front of the power-starved voters.
                Sooner or later, it has to be done. It's a lot cheaper now before new power plants come on line when your load is easier to handle. When your lines become super hot, then replacing them becomes even more problematic.

                Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                In any case, India's power shortfall is so huge, merely reducing transmission losses is never going to be enough.
                Never suggested that it is but what I am suggesting is that you can delay needing the NSG long enough for your own industry to catch up to your needs. Work smarter, not harder ... and the place to start is your infrastructure.

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                • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  Never suggested that it is but what I am suggesting is that you can delay needing the NSG long enough for your own industry to catch up to your needs. Work smarter, not harder ... and the place to start is your infrastructure.
                  The industry may well catch up but India will always need the NSG for more Uranium. India's own reserves aren't nearly enough.

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                  • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    The industry may well catch up but India will always need the NSG for more Uranium. India's own reserves aren't nearly enough.
                    You don't understand what's happening.

                    India will cultivate an ass load of uranium in the long run "all by itself". The dilemma for the US and its puppet organizations are to "do something" or "do nothing". So instead of waiting it out where the US continues to command the world nations to deny selling india fission/fusion material and know how, it has tried to offer friendship to india by offering the civilian nuclear deal. However, independent india has observed the US very closely and the role it plays in world politics since the india-pakistan partition. India has already made up its mind.

                    BUT, in the short run, if india wants to import fission/fusion material and know how, it will have to become a subordinate to the world.

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                    • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                      The industry may well catch up but India will always need the NSG for more Uranium. India's own reserves aren't nearly enough.
                      Your ur reserves are fine. Your production, however, sucks ... but that is another topic.

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                      • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                        And the 9/11 hijackers lived, trained, received funding and carried out their attacks in the US ...
                        There are many more potential hostiles who are living and training in USA.

                        As we speak. ;)

                        What do you suggest they do about it? ;)
                        There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

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                        • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                          The fact is the bolded bit. The rest is nothing but your own spin on the fact and your personal opinion. Although I must say, it is amusing to see you stretching this from "Pakistani government complicity" (which even I do not believe) to "Pakistani institutional complicity" to cover the posterior of the army.
                          This seems quite amazing but is a constant narrative from several Pakistanis including AM.

                          Other countries have an army, PA has a country to itself. It is not just rhetoric.
                          There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

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                          • Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
                            There are many more potential hostiles who are living and training in USA.

                            As we speak. ;)

                            What do you suggest they do about it? ;)
                            I assume US Law enforcement and intelligence is doing what it should be, given the numerous cases, known of publicly, in which potential terrorist attacks have been thwarted.
                            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                            • Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
                              This seems quite amazing but is a constant narrative from several Pakistanis including AM.
                              You are late to the conversation - Tronic's (and others) characterization of the US statement (that is the subject of this thread) has been corrected.
                              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                              • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                                You are late to the conversation - Tronic's (and others) characterization of the US statement (that is the subject of this thread) has been corrected.
                                No it hasn't. I'm in the middle of my final exams so I just don't have the time to respond. I'll get to it in a few days.
                                Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                                -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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