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  • US Assessment - Pakistan unaware of Laden's Location

    WASHINGTON: The commander of US Special Operations Command has said that a post-raid assessment concluded there is no evidence that the Pakistani government knew the whereabouts of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, who was eliminated in an operation in May 2011.

    Navy Adm William H McRaven told attendees at a Summit that Pakistan wasn’t informed of the raid that led to the death of bin Laden.

    McRaven said he doesn’t believe the Pakistani government knew bin Laden’s whereabouts, the Pentagon reported Thursday.

    “We have no intelligence that indicates the Pakistanis knew he was there,” he added.

    The US Special Forces carried out the secret night raid on Osama bin Laden’s hideout in Abbottabad on May 1, last year.

    McRaven said there was never a moment he doubted the raid would succeed. Though bin Laden is dead, non-state actors still present a threat, the admiral noted.

    “We’ve done a terrific job of taking care of the core of al Qaeda,” McRaven said. But, he added, “There’s no such thing as a local problem anymore. Everything in the world is connected.”

    This interconnectedness means the future of special operations lies in partnerships with other nations, he added.

    “We understand to minimize the rise of violent extremism, you have to create the conditions on the ground where people have good jobs, where there is the rule of law, where there is stability [and] where there is good governance,” he said.

    “We think, from a military standpoint, we can certainly help with the security that will be required to help begin to build some of that stability”.

    “The raids get all the media attention”, he continued, “but the reality of the matter is the bulk of what we do is building partner capacity and working with host nations. I think that’s the future of special operations,” he said, according to a Pentagon account of his remarks.

    Pakistan was unaware of bin Laden’s location, US assessment concludes – The Express Tribune

    ============

    So, can we finally put the conspiracy theories (that the Pakistan Army and/or ISI were complicit in hiding OBL) to rest now?
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

  • #2
    Why open a new thread for this when you already have one running from before?
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Why open a new thread for this when you already have one running from before?
      Isn't the other one titled as a thread about whether Pakistan was informed about the Abbottabad operation rather than a thread about whether Pakistan was complicit or not?
      Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
      https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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      • #4
        it starting to look like troling.
        "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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        • #5
          Originally posted by omon View Post
          it starting to look like troling.
          What is? The continued insistence that the Pakistani government and/or Military/Intelligence were officially complicit in hiding OBL despite the complete lack of evidence supporting said claims? I agree :)

          That said, I am fine with the mods merging this thread with another if they desire, but perhaps you and Tronic could respond to the US Assessment instead of wringing your hands over forum housekeeping?
          Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
          https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
            What is? The continued insistence that the Pakistani government and/or Military/Intelligence were officially complicit in hiding OBL despite the complete lack of evidence supporting said claims? I agree :)

            That said, I am fine with the mods merging this thread with another if they desire, but perhaps you and Tronic could respond to the US Assessment instead of wringing your hands over forum housekeeping?
            get over it, i doubt anyone still cares.
            "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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            • #7
              Originally posted by omon View Post
              get over it, i doubt anyone still cares.
              Sorry, I can't just 'get over' the propaganda and smear campaign Pakistan has been subjected to during the past several years.

              You don't have to read or respond to these threads you know ... free choice and all that ...
              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                Sorry, I can't just 'get over' the propaganda and smear campaign Pakistan has been subjected to during the past several years.

                ...


                welcome to the real world, where preseption is reality. you should accept it, and move on, or your nervous system will be a train wreck by the time you are 40. there is noting you can say' link ' or post, that will change opinions and positions on pak much, if at all. you actually now doing counterproductive work. but hey, that is your free choice.
                "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by omon View Post
                  welcome to the real world, where preseption is reality. you should accept it, and move on, or your nervous system will be a train wreck by the time you are 40. there is noting you can say' link ' or post, that will change opinions and positions on pak much, if at all. you actually now doing counterproductive work. but hey, that is your free choice.
                  Perceptions cannot be changed by simply accepting false allegations and smear campaigns and 'moving on', they can only be changed, and rabid conspiracy nuts and hatemongers that refuse to change their biased minds despite all the evidence exposing their views as nonsense exposed, through continued attempts to highlight the lack of evidence behind such smear campaigns.

                  Cheers!
                  Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                  https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                    Perceptions cannot be changed by simply accepting false allegations and smear campaigns and 'moving on', they can only be changed, and rabid conspiracy nuts and hatemongers that refuse to change their biased minds despite all the evidence exposing their views as nonsense exposed, through continued attempts to highlight the lack of evidence behind such smear campaigns.

                    Cheers!
                    AM why simply beat your head against a wall here. Go to pakdef and enjoy the circlejerk.
                    Pak govt and ISI have done so many nasty things that even if you create a list of links for next 100 years nobody will care what you say.
                    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I care!

                      AM has every right to post credible sources and you guys have every right to prove him wrong.

                      These low level attacks don't help anyone. As a matter of fact they help AM.
                      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
                        AM why simply beat your head against a wall here. Go to pakdef and enjoy the circlejerk.
                        Pak govt and ISI have done so many nasty things that even if you create a list of links for next 100 years nobody will care what you say.
                        The fun in debating is when people strongly disagree, wouldn't you agree? ;)
                        Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 16 Nov 12,, 18:58. Reason: keeping it clean :D
                        Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                        https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                          Perceptions cannot be changed by simply accepting false allegations and smear campaigns and 'moving on', they can only be changed, and rabid conspiracy nuts and hatemongers that refuse to change their biased minds despite all the evidence exposing their views as nonsense exposed, through continued attempts to highlight the lack of evidence behind such smear campaigns.Cheers!
                          I have a special loathing in my heart for conspiracy theorists and I'm far from being a hate-monger.

                          But seriously, to think that Bin Laden (and his family) slipped into Abbotabad and set up a little homestead less than a mile from the Pakistan Military Academy without some kind of help from the Pakistani government or military?

                          As I've pointed out before, the Pak government, intelligence and military are either hideously incompetent or somebody was keeping things quiet.

                          So which is it?
                          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                            But seriously, to think that Bin Laden (and his family) slipped into Abbotabad and set up a little homestead less than a mile from the Pakistan Military Academy without some kind of help from the Pakistani government or military?

                            As I've pointed out before, the Pak government, intelligence and military are either hideously incompetent or somebody was keeping things quiet.

                            So which is it?
                            Your latter statement, as I have argued before, is reflective of a lack of understanding of the cultural dynamics and weak governance in Pakistan.

                            The land was bought by X, house constructed by X and/or Y, at the time of the raid it was owned by X/Y/Z, people only saw X/Y/Z going in and out of the house (X/Y/Z is not equal to OBL). At no point was there any indication that OBL resided there or was linked to it, AFAIK, so for me, given my comment about Pakistani governance and culture, it is completely plausible that OBL was able to get away without being detected.

                            Pakistan cooperated in terms of several critical AQ leadership arrests and intelligence that was provided to the US, and those arrests and intelligence were supposedly critical in piecing together bits of information to find OBL's hideout. Given that both the Pakistani and US investigations as well as various other official statements from both Pakistani and US officials have clearly pointed out the utter lack of any evidence pointing to Pakistani institutional complicity, I don't see how one can continue to buy into the argument that the PA/ISI was complicit.
                            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              AM

                              a link would have been helpful.

                              McRaven: No Evidence Pakistan Knew bin Laden’s Location | American Forces Press Service | Nov 15 2012

                              Could not find the interview on Rose's website.

                              Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                              “We have no intelligence that indicates the Pakistanis knew he was there,” he added.
                              Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                              So, can we finally put the conspiracy theories (that the Pakistan Army and/or ISI were complicit in hiding OBL) to rest now?
                              Lack of evidence isn't proof of absence.

                              Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                              McRaven said he doesn’t believe the Pakistani government knew bin Laden’s whereabouts, the Pentagon reported Thursday.
                              Nope, thats not quite what he said.
                              Last edited by Double Edge; 16 Nov 12,, 19:55.

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