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  • Dago, just in case you make the mistake of thinkng that our antipodean peacenik knows what he is talking about regarding the capabilities of the modern Australian Army, we bought the Abrams in 2007. A few of his kindred journalists did web searches on the type and seeing the weight of the heaviest model and the capacity of the door ramps on our amphibious transports, concluded that they couldn't be deployed. Surpisingly the Army had thought of that, had bought a lighter model and the Navy had the door ramps strengthened. They can be deployed just fine. This is a prime example of the uninformed hysteria we get whenever we spend some money on defence.
    "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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    • Good info Aussiegunner. Honestly I had no idea of Abrams procurement by Australia as the media here didn't report on it. However, even if that were the case, and you pointed that it is not the case, you would still build your transports on requirement of your war fighting assets. I am sure, even if they were too heavy, you would find a way to logistically deliver that type of system to the battlefield.
      Last edited by Dago; 19 Dec 11,, 02:28.
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      • Originally posted by Dago View Post
        Good info Aussiegunner. Honestly I had no idea of Abrams procurement by Australia as the media here didn't report on it. However, even if that were the case, and you pointed that it is not the case, you would still build your transports on requirement of your war fighting assets. I am sure, even if they were too heavy, Defense planners would find a way to logistically deliver that type of system to the battlefield.
        Indeed we have also have four C-17s that can be used to deploy them, and I think another is on the way.
        "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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        • Aussiegunner Reply

          "Typical hypocritical crap from a certain type of American but it is a shame to see it coming from some Indians now. If the foundation of our NPT membership, American willingness to provide a deterrant, falls away in thr future then we have every right to do what India and Israel have done and use whatever means we can to build our own nuclear weapons in secret."

          What's this about hypocritical? What Israel and India did was as NON-signatories to the NPT. Australia? Feel free to withdraw. THEN constructing a nuke wouldn't be hypocritical. Anything less and you're once again reaching from your azz.

          I guess that'd make you a certain type of Australian.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • Originally posted by S2 View Post
            "Typical hypocritical crap from a certain type of American but it is a shame to see it coming from some Indians now. If the foundation of our NPT membership, American willingness to provide a deterrant, falls away in thr future then we have every right to do what India and Israel have done and use whatever means we can to build our own nuclear weapons in secret."

            What's this about hypocritical? What Israel and India did was as NON-signatories to the NPT. Australia? Feel free to withdraw. THEN constructing a nuke wouldn't be hypocritical. Anything less and you're once again reaching from your azz.

            I guess that'd make you a certain type of Australian.
            We signed upon the understanding that we would be protected. As far as I am concerned that means that if the commitment to protection wavers the treaty is void.

            As far as doing it all legal and proper like, you might be naive enough to think that that is the way international relations are conducted but I am not. If we pulled out of the treaty then sought nukes the major powers would make life so difficult for us that we would never get them. If we already had them by the time they found out it would be fait accompli ... we might cop a few sanctions for a while but our position as a dominant global supplier of several major minerals would mean that our major trading partners would have to deal with us before long.

            Also, doing it in secret would allow us to deny that we even have nukes unless the shit hits the fan. Plausible deniability worked for Israel, India, Pakistan and South Africa and it would work for us. It eould mean that we don't have to antagonise anybody by rubbing the World's nose in the fact that we have walked away from the NPT, until the critical time.
            "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

            Comment


            • Anyway, reflecting on this I'm pretty sure we could develop the expertise to do this ourselves. It would be a matter of using reliable existing Australian nuclear scientists and engineers to train military personel in the skills to build a reactor for enrichment and to design the warheads. We have a rocketry program so could develop then skills to build delivery vehicles. Alternatively we could leverage off the sub-harpoon we have in service to build cruise missiles. Foreign help would certainly make things quicker, but it would be a matter of weighing that up against the increased risk of information being spilled.
              "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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              • People,

                Get used to the fact that I will be wrong for a long time coming.

                Gunner,

                There's a lot of things wrong with your stand that I don't even know where to begin.

                1) If Australia can't make a gun type nuke in 3 weeks, you should close down all your reactors.

                2) Why did you pick China when they don't have the numbers nor the doctrine to take on even a non-nuclear Australia. The country most likely to threaten Australia with nukes is Russia ... and good luck if you think Australia even have a chance in hell of deterring the Russian 15,000+ nukes arsenal within a reasonable time span.

                3) Why are you advocating Australia to break Australian Law? The NPT is Australian Law whether you like it or not. To state that Australia could acquire nukes while hiding under the NPT specifically states that Australia will break Australian Law without any legal procedures. If this is the case, kiss your pension goodbye because Australian Law would be worth toilet paper.

                4) The world knew about Pakistan, India, Israel, South Africa, and North Korea. What makes you think that Australia would be any better at hiding nukes when all your materials are under IAEA watch? No, those four countries are not under IAEA watch when they made their nukes.

                5) What makes you think that Obama or any POTUS can ignore the ANZUS Treaty?

                As for the rest of you, I don't know how long I will be back. Just get used to the fact that I am wrong and will be wrong from now on.

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                • Colonel,

                  Good to have you with us again, sir.
                  "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                  "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                  Comment


                  • Aussiegunner Reply

                    "...As far as doing it all legal and proper like, you might be naive enough to think that that is the way international relations are conducted but I am not. If we pulled out of the treaty then sought nukes the major powers would make life so difficult for us that we would never get them..."

                    I see. Well...no hypocrisy there, eh?
                    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                    Comment


                    • Good to be back, Steve, have not been able to participate due to my situation. Ex-wife didn't help. I may not be able to teach anything new, but the old lessons still apply.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
                        We signed upon the understanding that we would be protected. As far as I am concerned that means that if the commitment to protection wavers the treaty is void.
                        Signed what ?

                        Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
                        As far as doing it all legal and proper like, you might be naive enough to think that that is the way international relations are conducted but I am not. If we pulled out of the treaty then sought nukes the major powers would make life so difficult for us that we would never get them. If we already had them by the time they found out it would be fait accompli ... we might cop a few sanctions for a while but our position as a dominant global supplier of several major minerals would mean that our major trading partners would have to deal with us before long.

                        Also, doing it in secret would allow us to deny that we even have nukes unless the shit hits the fan. Plausible deniability worked for Israel, India, Pakistan and South Africa and it would work for us. It eould mean that we don't have to antagonise anybody by rubbing the World's nose in the fact that we have walked away from the NPT, until the critical time.
                        Was watching a documentary on the Australia netowrk about a former ASIO head, Spry.

                        Brits tested their nukes on your terrtory in the sixties.

                        So why did you then refuse to have nukes as well ?

                        What was the basis for that decision.

                        Comment


                        • OoE Reply

                          "Good to be back, Steve, have not been able to participate due to my situation. Ex-wife didn't help. I may not be able to teach anything new, but the old lessons still apply."

                          God love you, sir. I'm very, very happy to have you here. It's, in fact, a complete joy.:)
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by OOE View Post
                            Good to be back, Steve, have not been able to participate due to my situation. Ex-wife didn't help. I may not be able to teach anything new, but the old lessons still apply.
                            Yay

                            Was hoping this thread would serve as a honeypot to lure you back.

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                            • Damn glad you back, Colonel.

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                              • Originally posted by OOE View Post
                                Good to be back, Steve, have not been able to participate due to my situation. Ex-wife didn't help. I may not be able to teach anything new, but the old lessons still apply.
                                Glad to see you again, sir.

                                Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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