Osama Bin Laden is dead and his corpse is in US hands.

[Agnostic Muslim]

I notice you didn't answer my question: what else could the Pak military say after the op was pulled off?

AFAIK, the Pak Military has not said anything officially so far ...

The GoP has credited the US for the operation.

Your faith in Pak technology vs US technology is rather incredible.

Your faith in US technology is what is rather 'incredible'.

Then again, 'Rambo types' tend to believe in this kind of stuff and plans for 'Special Forces securing the nukes and spiriting them out of Pakistan'.

[zraver]

Thanks Troung, as I suspected MH-60's with a lot of technical support. Once they were in the air Pakistan lost them.

AM,

First - no reports of 'collapsed communications' from Pakistan. People were twittering, posting and commenting the entire time. The administrator of one Pakistani forum that is still online was posting updates yesterday about access being restricted to the area after the chopper crash and while gunfire was being heard. Sorry, but the facts simply don't support your Star Wars tale.

I doubt the Pakistani security forces are going to come forward. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

[1980s]

Why would the capture of Rigi on a flight from Dubai to Central Asia be embarrassing to Pakistan?

If anything, it proved that he was not in Pakistan.

Because he confessed to having been based in Pakistan, as had his brother Abdolhamed Rigi. This ran contrary to the usual Pakistani narrative of 'denial' and 'not knowing' where Rigi (include Omar and Bin Laden et al in that) was. Once these revelations came out in the Iranian media, the Pakistani media changed their tune from one of denial that Jondallah had anything to do with Pakistan to one of how Rigi's capture was done in "co-operation" with Pakistan - something Iran has rejected in public, and laughed-off in private. Much like the American's are doing over Bin Laden's assassination and Pakistan's flip-flop narrative of denial to attempting to taking credit for it.

[Agnostic Muslim]

AM,

I doubt the Pakistani security forces are going to come forward. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

You can check the time stamps on the media reports and posts - no communications went down and there was public knowledge (and real time commentary abut the events) of 'events' involving choppers, gunfire and restricted access to the area, yesterday.

[Agnostic Muslim]

Because he confessed to having been based in Pakistan, as had his brother Abdolhamed Rigi.

What does his having been based in Pakistan have to do with Pakistani complicity? There are plenty of Baluch terrorists attacking Pakistani security forces in Pakistan based in Pakistan as well.

This ran contrary to the usual Pakistani narrative of 'denial' and 'not knowing' where Rigi (include Omar and Bin Laden et al in that) was.

Rigi claiming he was based in Pakistan does not prove Pakistan knew where he was.

Once these revelations came out in the Iranian media, the Pakistani media changed their tune from one of denial that Jondallah had anything to do with Pakistan to one of how Rigi's capture was done in "co-operation" with Pakistan - something Iran has rejected in public, and laughed-off in private. Much like the American's are doing over Bin Laden's assassination and Pakistan's flip-flop narrative of denial to attempting to taking credit for it.

The following is also what Iran claimed, we should believe that too then I suppose:

On Feb. 25, Iranian state television broadcast footage of a supposed confession made by Rigi, saying he was flying to Central Asia to meet with American handlers at the U.S.-run Manas air base in Kyrgyzstan. Intelligence Minister Moslehi had already pointed his finger at Washington and the hand of the CIA, claiming to have evidence that Rigi was earlier housed at a U.S. base in Afghanistan and set up with fake documentation by the Americans.

Read more: Iran's Arrest of Extremist Rigi: Did Pakistan Help? - TIME

[Officer of Engineers]

Yes, indeed Zraver. That makes the most sense. US would have used "zero day" signals technology for this op if necessary, although I doubt it was. The US is regularly overflying Pakistan; what could be easier cover for an insertion like this?

In Pakistan's defence, they were not exactly looking for sigs in that neighbourhood. Their limited assets are pointed to the big elephant to the East and what's left is watching for US airpower flying in Afghanistan to stay in Afghanistan.

[IND76]

I just saw a news programme on Al-Zazeera TV, in which the Arab reporters interviewed a few residents of Abbotabad, who lived in the neighborhood of the Compound where Osama lived from 2005. They said this house is strange, as it is almost 8 times larger than the houses in this area and it had about 18 feet high compound walls. The residents said the house always appeared mysterious, especially that it was located at a stone's throw away from Pakistani Military Academy and military establishment. The residents said that the town and the area is a highly Restricted Area, and EVERYBODY who wants to move in the area is subjected to a detailed security scrutinees, like checking IDs and references. Under these circutances, it was impossible for Bin Laden, his large family and armed security guards to be able to live there from 2005, without the protection of the ISI and Pak Army. The house was worth more than 1 million dollars and to survive in such a large and specially built house (large family and huge/constant medical expenses for ailing Osama) without any source of income was impossible, unless Bin Laden was being taken care of by the ISI, was not possible. Therefore, the conclusion is Osama was living in a ISI safe house.

[Dreadnought]

A bunch of 'poorly equipped Jihadis' also do the same time and again in territory under the control of US security forces in Afghanistan, and did so for the longest time in Iraq as well.

A 'bunch of poorly equipped jihadis' are not flying around in half a dozen choppers across most of Pakistan to launch a raid. Had this raid not been an 'airborne raid', the claim that Pakistan had no idea about it would have held some credibility.

'Superbly trained commandos' are not the sole domain of the US, nor are they some sort of 'supermen' themselves. And 'impressive US technical capability to take over the target areas communication' to facilitate a raiding party flying across the entire country is yet more fanciful 'Rambo nonsense'.

First - no reports of 'collapsed communications' from Pakistan. People were twittering, posting and commenting the entire time. The administrator of one Pakistani forum that is still online was posting updates yesterday about access being restricted to the area after the chopper crash and while gunfire was being heard. Sorry, but the facts simply don't support your Star Wars tale.


US forces are not 'supermen' either, nor is there any evidence to suggest anything along the lines of a 'communications blackout to facilitate insertion and assault' that you appear to be suggesting took place.


The helicopter crash (unknown cause at the time) and news reports indicating gun fire and restricted access to the area, were being broadcast yesterday, and posted on Pakistani forums.

Don't be so gullible.


You need to live in Pakistan some more then ....

Mumbai proved nothing about the ISI's links to militants since absolutely no evidence about the ISI's connection or knowledge to the attacks has been provided so far.

Let it be known it was not Commando's. It was the USN Seal Team 6 according to reports that performed the operation. And YES they are one of the best in the world bar none. Which means they came into Pakistan under their noses and under their radars. They didnt fly across the country either, but thats not for mention. And IMO, There is no doubt Pakistani forces knew he (OBL) was there for some time. This is why their "trust" is very questionable. Perhaps they fear the very same brand of people they themselves cannot control. The ISI are not stupid which begs the question how long have they known.

Fabled SEAL Team 6 ends hunt for bin Laden

[Agnostic Muslim]

Let it be known it was not Commando's. It was the USN Seal Team 6 according to reports that performed the operation. Which means they came into Pakistan under their noses. They didnt fly across the country either.

Fabled SEAL Team 6 ends hunt for bin Laden

Commandos or special forces, semantics.

If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

Since there are clear images of a crashed chopper, and eyewitness reports of up to 6 choppers, this was obviously an airborne mission.

[Red Seven]

If the ISI or Pakistani military was in on it very early, the chances that the op would be leaked to bin Laden were almost 100%

I agree. The essential element of our relationship with Pakistan since early 2002 has been and continues to be distrust. There would be no sensible reason to trust more than a few key Pakistani officials with intelligence of this magnitude until the very last moment. There perhaps had been some cooperation at some level. But any Pakistani claim for credit that comes forth now is merely an effort to save face. It's insanity to think that UBL could have evaded us for so long and in such a manner without considerable Pakistani duplicity. Many fingers point to the ISI and with good reason. They have a track record. They helped the Taliban, they helped AQ and they are helping Lashkar-e-Taiba.

[FJV]

Congratulations

:Dancing-Banana:

Nicely done.

[Dreadnought]

Commandos or special forces, semantics.

If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

Since there are clear images of a crashed chopper, and eyewitness reports of up to 6 choppers, this was obviously an airborne mission.

You do realize the US has had bases in Pakistan for sometime right? Most didnt even know they were flying drones from Pakistan territory for a pretty long time now. Thats not the only base the US has used in Pakistan. And probably one of the reasons that many dont know is because many are not trusted with that information fearing it being leaked as it has shown to be many times before..

Seals are a world different then Commando's. They come from either the Air or the Sea (in most cases Sea launched and in some Air launched as in dealing with Pirates as we have seen). Their modis operadi dictates as less ground travel or air travel as possible (vulnerable in these cases). In and Out under darkness. Surgical, and out just as fast.

Wondering if Ma Deuce was used as a door knocker.

[Agnostic Muslim]

You do realize the US has had bases in Pakistan for sometime right? Most didnt even know they were flying drones from Pakistan territory for a pretty long time now. Thats not the only base the US has used in Pakistan.

The US does not have 'independent' bases in Pakistan - the bases it has used are existing Pakistani bases with Pakistani personnel. That makes the argument of 'lack of Pakistani knowledge about a raid' even less plausible.

Air traffic, including drones, is monitored by Pakistan.

The recent tensions over Raymond Davis and covert CIA operations in Pakistan would have only increased monitoring of US forces in Pakistan.

[Bhaarat]

Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden | Herald Sun

HUNDREDS took to the streets of Pakistan's city of Quetta to pay homage to Osama bin Laden, chanting death to America and setting fire to a US flag, witnesses and organisers said.

Angry participants belonging to a religious party in Quetta, the capital of southwestern province Baluchistan, were led by federal lawmaker Maulawi Asmatullah. They also torched a US flag before dispersing peacefully.
It was the first rally in Pakistan after the US announced that bin Laden had been killed in an overnight commando mission in Pakistan.
Organisers said between 1,000 and 1,200 people attended the rally, but witnesses put the figure closer to 800.
"Bin Laden was the hero of the Muslim world and after his martyrdom he has won the title of great mujahed (Muslim fighter)," Asmatullah said.
"His martyrdom will not end the movement. It will continue and thousands more bin Ladens will be born," he said.
The marchers also chanted slogans in favour of the Taliban and its supreme leader Mullah Omar who have been fighting across the border in Afghanistan since US-led troops invaded after the militia refused to give up bin Laden.
"Today's operation shows the US has no respect for international borders and they can violate international laws any time," he added.
Baluchistan, bordering Iran and Afghanistan is wracked by an insurgency waged by ethnic Baluch tribes seeking greater autonomy from the government and a greater share of profits from the region's wealth of oil and gas resources.
The region has also been hit by attacks blamed on Taliban militants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Bhaarat

[Red Seven]

If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

Since there are clear images of a crashed chopper, and eyewitness reports of up to 6 choppers, this was obviously an airborne mission.

Not necessarily. All the personnel and equipment for the mission could have entered Pakistan in disguise in the weeks and months preceeding the raid. The helos could have been for a quick extraction only...and for support/security during the raid and during the extraction. ST6 and SFOD-D often infirltrate in this manner, disguised as civilians.