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VVV, Request for eval - 4 RCMP killed

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  • VVV, Request for eval - 4 RCMP killed

    I don't want to play armchair cop on this but I would like some perspective as to should have this been expected from American experiences. My understanding of the layout was that this should had been handled by military assualt pioneers, not saying cops ain't up to the job but it's the kind of layout that we train for.

    Incidently, I'm sending my condolences to the RCMP to be forwarded to their families and colleges.




    4 RCMP officers killed on Alberta farm
    Last Updated Fri, 04 Mar 2005 14:41:06 EST
    CBC News

    ROCHFORT BRIDGE, ALTA. - A raid on a suspected marijuana grow operation in rural Alberta has left five people dead – four of them RCMP officers. It is the single worst multiple killing of RCMP officers in modern Canadian history.

    * INDEPTH: Killed on the job

    Const. Brock Myrol (courtesy Mayerthorpe Freelancer)

    "It's my sad duty to inform you that four members of the RCMP were killed today in the line of duty – four brave young members," said RCMP Assistant Commissioner Bill Sweeney. All of those killed were described as junior officers.

    Police have not officially named the deceased officers but one of them has been identified as 29-year-old Const. Broack Myrol, originally of Red Deer, Alta.

    Friends say Myrol had joined the Mayerthorpe detachment a mere two weeks ago, and had recently become engaged to his girlfriend.

    A national newspaper also identified one of the deceased as Const. Leo Johnston, a 33-year-old ace marksman. Johnson had been on the force about four years and had received Crown Pistols and Crown Rifles badges.

    According to police the incident unfolded early Thursday morning when four RCMP officers – three from the Mayerthorpe detachment and another from nearby Whitecourt, took part in a raid on a farm near Rochfort Bridge. The officers were investigating allegations of stolen property and a marijuana grow operation.

    Rochfort Bridge is located near Mayerthorpe, about 130 kilometres northwest of Edmonton.

    Looking ashen and shaken, RCMP spokesman Cpl. Wayne Oakes told a news conference that the officers were killed inside a Quonset hut - a rounded, steel storage facility - on the farm. They had been shot.

    * FROM MARCH 3, 2005: Zaccardelli calls grow ops 'plague on our society'

    The Quonset hut that police suspect held the marijuana growing operation in Rochfort Bridge, Alta.

    Their bodies were discovered by emergency response team officers at about 2:20 p.m.

    Asked if the victims had been ambushed, Oakes said, "I don't know."

    The suspect in the killings has been identified as Jim Roszko, 46, who apparently killed himself after the shootout.

    Speaking to reporters on Thursday, the suspect's father Bill Roszko said that his son was on a dangerous path and they hadn't spoken in nine years.

    "He's not my son, he's a wicked devil," said Bill Roszko.
    News vehicles were kept away from the scene through the day while police investigated.

    * FROM MARCH 4, 2005: Police say busting grow ops extremely dangerous

    The killing of the four officers appears to be unprecedented in modern Canadian history. "You'd have to go back to 1885, to the Northwest Rebellion, to have a loss of this magnitude. It's devastating," said Sweeney.

    Police went to property Wednesday

    The incident started on Wednesday afternoon when police went to the property to investigate a suspected grow op. While there, they saw stolen car parts and stolen property. Two officers remained overnight.

    Around 10 a.m. local time Thursday, the other officers returned and were shot at. They returned fire.

    Police requested help from the military around noon.

    The first word of a problem came from Alberta Solicitor General Harvey Cenaiko who said the RCMP lost contact with the four at about 10 a.m.

    "As far as we know, there's four officers not responding to their radios, so there is an indication that something is serious here," Cenaiko said earlier in the day.

    After the shooting the RCMP rushed at least two emergency response teams from Edmonton and Red Deer to the area, along with reinforcements from the Edmonton police. The Canadian military was put on alert, but later told it wasn't needed.

    Copyright ©2005 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - All Rights Reserved

  • #2
    Hmm... Its kind of hard to make a decision based soley on that. I mean what kind of people did the RCMP send. With four dead, I'm guessing it wasn't an assult element. I mean I have never had to bust a large scale grower but I would imagine that we would send a SORT or SWAT assult element to do the dirty work. I don't know... There are times when the military should be called in. This article is to vague to decide wether or not this was one of those cases. It almost sounds like they were unprepared...? In my job I don't decide where I go, I decide how to do what Chief tells me to do.

    May the 4 men rest in peace.
    "Our citizenship in the United States is our national character. Our citizenship in any particular state is only our local distinction. By the latter we are known at home, by the former to the world. Our great title is AMERICANS…" -- Thomas Paine

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    • #3
      My most appreciative thanks for your reply. I don't have the experience nor the expertise to play armchair cop. I was just asking if something jumps out at you. I will let the matter lie here. There's alot of soul searching right now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
        My most appreciative thanks for your reply. .
        No problem.
        "Our citizenship in the United States is our national character. Our citizenship in any particular state is only our local distinction. By the latter we are known at home, by the former to the world. Our great title is AMERICANS…" -- Thomas Paine

        Comment


        • #5
          Colonel, I read a news item about that terrible situation yesterday and thought of you.
          May those brave men rest in peace.
          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Veni Vidi Vici
            I don't know... There are times when the military should be called in.

            May the 4 men rest in peace.

            VVV,

            I'm not SWAT or anything, just a patrol cop/traffic investigator. But under what circumstances (other than terrorism) do you forsee calling in the military?
            (If I had my way we'd have 5th SFG from Ft Campbell in our project areas practicing urban CQB on druggies, but posse commitatus kind of frowns on that.) Just curious.

            I hope RCMP sends the info to the Officer Down Memorial Page.
            Rest in peace lads.
            Rule 303

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            • #7
              Do you mean the federal military, or the guard?

              Posse commitatus REALLY frowns on federal military involvement...for excellent cause IMO.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Beaugeste93
                I'm not SWAT or anything, just a patrol cop/traffic investigator. But under what circumstances (other than terrorism) do you forsee calling in the military?
                I could mabe justify calling in the guard for large scale rioting or other large scale events where the force was just too undermanned to handle. Such cases would be rare however.
                "Our citizenship in the United States is our national character. Our citizenship in any particular state is only our local distinction. By the latter we are known at home, by the former to the world. Our great title is AMERICANS…" -- Thomas Paine

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Veni Vidi Vici
                  I could mabe justify calling in the guard for large scale rioting or other large scale events where the force was just too undermanned to handle. Such cases would be rare however.
                  I belive the last such incident (here anyhow) was in 1997 when the Indians barricaded the NYS Thruway and shot at the state troopers, several of whom were seriously injured. The Indians then faught a "fighting retreat" to their reservation where they continued to shoot at troopers, local LEO's, and National Guardsmen. Gov. Pataki, the NYNG commander and the State Police superintendent wanted to send Apache choppers and M1 Abrams to attack the reservation but they were forced to stand down.

                  We still have problems with them from time to time, the Indian reservation "police" claim they they are not bound to follow the Bill of Rights and such (as they think the reservations are soverign nations), they detain people unlawfully and the like.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by M21Sniper
                    Do you mean the federal military, or the guard?

                    Posse commitatus REALLY frowns on federal military involvement...for excellent cause IMO.

                    I meant either really. I didn't know how much Federal/NG presence there was doing "war on drugs" and similar ops.

                    I agree with VVV that it would have to be something major- terrorism, large scale rioting, etc. I asked because she does more high-speed stuff, she might have more contact with federal/military types and more insight.
                    Rule 303

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Beaugeste93
                      I meant either really. I didn't know how much Federal/NG presence there was doing "war on drugs" and similar ops.

                      I agree with VVV that it would have to be something major- terrorism, large scale rioting, etc. I asked because she does more high-speed stuff, she might have more contact with federal/military types and more insight.

                      Apparently, all the Mounties were rookies. Not a good combination. What is Canada's equivalent of the DEA? I've long forgotten by now, severe car crashes will do that to you.

                      -Tink

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                      • #12
                        A sad event to loose 4 officers for any police dept. Maybe the higher up will draw lessons and improve upon SOPs for such ops. May their families get the strength to face this loss.
                        Originally posted by Beaugeste93
                        I'm not SWAT or anything, just a patrol cop/traffic investigator.
                        Question for you?
                        What is the documentation requirement for a foreginer (on a tourist visa) to drive in the US? Is it done in the visa issuing embassy or at the US itself?
                        (We drive on the left of the road like the British.)
                        Thanks in advance.

                        Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                        • #13
                          "I meant either really. I didn't know how much Federal/NG presence there was doing "war on drugs" and similar ops."

                          Overseas, lots. Central America has had more US military ops in the last 20 years than probably the rest of the world combined...the US gov't just don't admit to them, or talk about them. ;)

                          Domestically, US military personnel are only suppossed to assist in the training of US police personnel, and provide intelligence support.

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                          • #14
                            "Gov. Pataki, the NYNG commander and the State Police superintendent wanted to send Apache choppers and M1 Abrams to attack the reservation but they were forced to stand down."

                            Thank God for small miracles.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "What is the documentation requirement for a foreginer (on a tourist visa) to drive in the US? Is it done in the visa issuing embassy or at the US itself?
                              (We drive on the left of the road like the British.)
                              Thanks in advance."

                              You'll want to double check me, but i believe all you need is a valid license from your nation of residence.

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