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Russia warns of 'risks' should Sweden join NATO

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    We're not really spending anything on NATO. Save for our SHAPE posts, all we use NATO for is training.
    I hate to say it but, yeah, that's because the US is paying the majority of NATO's operating expenses:

    http://www.nato.int/nato_static/asse...efence-exp.pdf

    And S2 put the topography of Sweden (and, for that matter, Finland & Norway, too) into perspective; I've been to Norway, and it's almost impossible to get anywhere unless you're on a road, a railway, or a boat (and the boats can't land just anywhere). Get off the beaten path, and you're either dealing with very steep mountains, or a lot of trees.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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    • #17
      Sweden is mostly a giant swamp full of mosquitos in the summer. The mountains don't start until 50 km before the Norwegian border.

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      • #18
        "Sweden is mostly a giant swamp full of mosquitos in the summer."

        Absolutely.

        For Americans, think Canadian provinces like Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta-where the prarie ends and the forests begin.
        "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
        "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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        • #19
          Sweden summons Russian ambassador after NATO threat

          Stockholm (AFP) - Sweden's foreign ministry on Friday summoned Russia's ambassador after Moscow threatened retaliatory measures if the Scandinavian country joined NATO.

          Viktor Tatarintsev "is expected to come today" at Foreign Minister Margot Wallstrom's request, a foreign ministry spokeswoman said.

          "We are an independent state and we make our own security policy decisions independently ... We do not accept threats and I have summoned the Russian ambassador to ask questions and get an explanation," Wallstrom told journalists.

          She was reacting to comments by Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova, who said Moscow would take "retaliatory measures" if Sweden were to join NATO.

          "Swedish membership in NATO would have politico-military and foreign policy consequences, and would require retaliatory measures from Russia," she said during a weekly briefing in Moscow on Thursday.

          "Defence and national security strategy is up to each sovereign state to decide. However, we still consider Sweden's policy of non-participation in military blocs to be an important factor for the stability of northern Europe," she said.

          Sweden has a long-standing policy of military non-alignment, meaning it is not bound by any alliances and chooses to take part in military operations on a case-by-case basis.

          The country is however part of NATO's Partnership for Peace programme and has contributed troops to its operations in Afghanistan, for example.

          Swedish public opinion has long been opposed to NATO membership, though recent polls have shown an increase in support amid concerns over Russia's recent military resurgence. Link

          _____________

          Apparently the Swedes are getting rather miffed...

          But what I still don't understand is why Russia feels the need antagonize them?
          Rising support for NATO membership is one thing...actually seeking NATO membership is a virtual impossibility.

          So why rattle your saber or wave your d--k at them?
          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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          • #20
            A case of "I have bigger d**k than you" in the menacing sense.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by snapper View Post
              A case of "I have bigger d**k than you" in the menacing sense.
              Well sure...but...why? And why Sweden??
              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Well sure...but...why? And why Sweden??
                We can only conjecture on the exact why's of our adversaries in my view. Of course some reasons for it might be clear to us; they seek to sow dissension within NATO, the EU and between the trans Atlantic alliance so that 'dived we fall' to a greater and more aggressive predator who takes the initiative. Naturally they do not want Sweden, Finland or Ukraine to join a collective military alliance which is already superior to their in almost any standard you care to think of. The stupidity of their policy in these threats to Sweden is similar to that of their aggression toward Ukraine; it makes the opposite of what they want more likely. Crimea and Donbass and the fallen 'heros' and 'cyborgs' have lost them Ukraine for the foreseeable future if not forever and likewise threatening the Swedes is more likely to make want greater security. You have to question if they really know what they are doing sometimes. It seems as if it may be mostly for domestic purposes in which the brash trumpet call of "We are great and they must fear us!" plays out to keep the plebs without expensive watches etc in order.

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                • #23
                  Russia sees Sweden as reflexively falling into the Western orbit and thinks Sweden will not fall into the Western orbit if Russia reminds Sweden Russia still exists.
                  "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by snapper View Post
                    We can only conjecture on the exact why's of our adversaries in my view. Of course some reasons for it might be clear to us; they seek to sow dissension within NATO, the EU and between the trans Atlantic alliance so that 'dived we fall' to a greater and more aggressive predator who takes the initiative. Naturally they do not want Sweden, Finland or Ukraine to join a collective military alliance which is already superior to their in almost any standard you care to think of. The stupidity of their policy in these threats to Sweden is similar to that of their aggression toward Ukraine; it makes the opposite of what they want more likely. Crimea and Donbass and the fallen 'heros' and 'cyborgs' have lost them Ukraine for the foreseeable future if not forever and likewise threatening the Swedes is more likely to make want greater security. You have to question if they really know what they are doing sometimes. It seems as if it may be mostly for domestic purposes in which the brash trumpet call of "We are great and they must fear us!" plays out to keep the plebs without expensive watches etc in order.
                    I said it right at the start of this and I'll say it again now: Putin wants to isolate his people, he wants them to feel it's 'us against them'. In short he wants to rebuild the iron curtain because it asserts his authority over Russia. Everything he does is in terms of this. Iron fisted at home, aggressive abroad. He really is that simple
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

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                    • #25
                      Simply amazing. I mean, I'm nothing special. I'm not formally educated in the political or military sciences. My biggest experience in foreign affairs was getting questioned by Canadian customs coming into Vancouver Airport some 20 years ago. I'm as far from the Russian Presidency as you can get. I'm just another dumb American nobody.

                      But even a simpleton like me can see that Putin is committing act after self-destructive act, to his ultimate detriment and that of Russia and the Russian people. Is Putin's life experience that incredibly crippling his common sense that he cannot see these things for himself?
                      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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                      • #26
                        That's why Russia put 100,000 troops on the border with China and sailed a submarine into Tokyo yesterday.
                        "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                          That's why Russia put 100,000 troops on the border with China and sailed a submarine into Tokyo yesterday.
                          On the contrary the Chinese are eager to take advantage of the Muscovite fall out with the west and have proposed to 'rent' large parts of Siberia, sending their own people there to form their own colonies. Naturally the small Siberian 'separatist' movement dislikes this idea and so is forced to fall back on Mafiosi Central to defend it's interests or see them sold out from under their feet - literally.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by snapper View Post
                            On the contrary the Chinese are eager to take advantage of the Muscovite fall out with the west and have proposed to 'rent' large parts of Siberia, sending their own people there to form their own colonies. Naturally the small Siberian 'separatist' movement dislikes this idea and so is forced to fall back on Mafiosi Central to defend it's interests or see them sold out from under their feet - literally.
                            I was being facetious. Apologies that didn't come through. I disagree with the narrative that Putin is simply trying to rattle everyone's cage and appearing strong for his own populace so he can be a dictator. That does not fit the majority of his Presidency or his current actions with other nations.

                            Putin is behaving aggressively only towards the West, because he sees no other option to defend Russia's core interests. I don't think he's clearly wrong. Russian intransigence and military action has clearly forestalled additional NATO expansion and most of the core European nations are deeply afraid of any sort of escalation. This was obvious, and by exposing it, Putin is causing Eastern European allies to waver, which is requiring US commitments, which is in turn pissing off the United States which does not want to shoulder the burden of the entire alliance.

                            What does the EU do when the US leaves NATO?
                            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                              What does the EU do when the US leaves NATO?
                              At their current rate of military spending and interest in their own defense?

                              Learn how to speak Russian.
                              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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                              • #30
                                That's my concern. Russian troops were in Berlin in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, and there's no reason to assume they won't be back in the 21st. The saving grace is that Russia will probably not be the obscene military powerhouse it was in prior centuries and so probably won't make it to Paris or London.
                                "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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