NATO membership for Sweden and Finland

[S2]

"...the rest of NATO loses patience..."

Cold day in Hell before that happens. It's like asking why Russia is still a member of the OCSE or chairing the security council of the UN. Could you imagine what'll happen if Poland or Finland were attacked and tried invoking Article 5. Watch the hesitancy and trepidation ooze from the pores of all these guys. It's plain that both Hungary and Turkey deserve severe smackdowns and compelling reminders of real consequences to not playing ball. Hungary would be my immediate candidate pour l'encourager les autres.

[Amled]

"...the rest of NATO loses patience..."

Cold day in Hell before that happens. It's like asking why Russia is still a member of the OCSE or chairing the security council of the UN. Could you imagine what'll happen if Poland or Finland were attacked and tried invoking Article 5. Watch the hesitancy and trepidation ooze from the pores of all these guys. It's plain that both Hungary and Turkey deserve severe smackdowns and compelling reminders of real consequences to not playing ball. Hungary would be my immediate candidate pour l'encourager les autres.

…or the island of Gotland.
A Swedish island in the middle of the northern part of the Baltic Sea between Sweden and the Baltic republics, its placement means that it’s prime real estate.

Strategically I mean!
There’s a reason that the Swedish Defense forces rushed heavy reinforcement to the island when the Ukrainian War went hot.
Yes, I know that Sweden, even if it’s not a NATO member, does have “promises” of aid and treaties. But how much would that mean, if such meant all-out war?
After all it’ just a hunk of rock in the Northern Baltic!!!

[Officer of Engineers]

I want the Russians to invade Poland 3 times - so they can cross Hungary 6 times.

[Ironduke]

I want the Russians to invade Poland 3 times - so they can cross Hungary 6 times.

I'm pretty sure I know what feeling toward Hungary you're trying to convey here... but did you forget to include Slovakia? Because there is a Slovakia between Hungary and Poland.

[Monash]

I'm pretty sure I know what feeling toward Hungary you're trying to convey here... but did you forget to include Slovakia? Because there is a Slovakia between Hungary and Poland.

Airborne invasions?

[Officer of Engineers]

I'm pretty sure I know what feeling toward Hungary you're trying to convey here... but did you forget to include Slovakia? Because there is a Slovakia between Hungary and Poland.

It's a take off of an old Polish joke. A Polish patriot wanted a genie to have the Mongols invade Poland 3 times. When the genie asked why, the Polish patriot answered because the Mongols will cross Russia 6 times.

[TopHatter]

Europe's support for Ukraine teeters as Hungary plays hardball

BRUSSELS, Dec 11 (Reuters) - European Union heavyweights are set for a showdown with Hungary this week over giving Ukraine billions of euros in aid and the chance to start membership negotiations, both key objectives for Kyiv as its war with Russia stalls.

European Union leaders will meet for a summit in Brussels on Thursday and Friday to decide on proposals to grant 50 billion euros of economic support to Kyiv, assign a further 20 billion euros to Ukraine's military and launch accession talks.

Securing fresh financial assistance from Europe is critical as doubts mount over future U.S. support for Kyiv, which relies on Western financial aid for its war with Russia.

But Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who boasts about his ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin, has threatened to veto the aid and enlargement talks at the Dec.14-15 summit.

All three decisions - as well as a fourth one on what would be the EU's 12 package of sanctions against Russia since the invasion begun in February, 2022 - require unanimous backing of all the bloc's 27 countries.

"We are in a key moment," a senior EU official said, in referring to a stalemate on the battlefield and the U.S. Congress not having approved President Joe Biden's $60 billion aid package for Ukraine.

"It's very important that... the European Union will show clear and full support to Ukraine," the official said under condition of anonymity. "That message wouldn't be only for Moscow, it would also be a message for Washington, it would also be a message for Kyiv." Europe's own credibility is also at stake with the bloc having previously vowed to stand by Ukraine as long as it takes.

"We count on positive decisions," Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Sunday evening. "Europe must defend its values and unity decisively."

WHAT ORBAN WANTS

Orban is not new to causing a stir in the European Union.

Hungary has watered down sanctions against Russia and last December vetoed a deal to grant Ukraine 18 billion euros in 2023.

It eventually allowed that assistance through after haggling for days over EU aid to Hungary blocked over concerns of democratic backsliding under Orban.

As the EU finds itself again seeking to win Orban's support for Ukraine, the executive European Commission is expected to unlock Budapest's access to 10 billion euros this week.

In opposing opening membership negotiations with Kyiv, Orban initially complained about Ukraine's treatment of the country's Hungarian minority. He has since said Ukraine was too corrupt and not ready to join the EU.

Instead of deciding on new aid to Ukraine, he demanded the bloc hold a "strategic discussion" on its support for Kyiv.

Diplomats said related bids by Georgia and Bosnia to advance their hopes to join the EU - both backed by Orban - would fall through if Hungary vetoes Ukraine.

"Our feeling was that Orban always knew how far he could go and that he would know exactly when it was time to climb down the tree," said a second senior EU diplomat.

Those expecting Orban to budge described a possible compromise throwing the start on negotiations with Ukraine to March under final conditions. Others, however, worry that this time the Hungarian leader may not be persuaded.

Orban will be up against German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, among others, who has said Berlin backs starting negotiations for Kyiv to join the EU someday.

FINANCIAL AND MILITARY AID

While Orban may be the loudest critic of extending more support to Ukraine, a ruling last month by Germany's constitutional court further complicated the EU talks by blowing a massive hole in its richest member's budget.

Should Hungary veto assigning 50 billion euros to Ukraine through the bloc's shared budget, the 26 other EU countries could extend their contributions bilaterally to Kyiv - a more complicated and expensive way.

Uncertainty also hangs over the future of the EU's military aid to Ukraine, where Russia now controls nearly a fifth of territory.

A proposal to use an EU-run military fund – the European Peace Facility (EPF) – to give Ukraine 20 billion euros in arms and other support over the next four years has run into resistance from Germany.

Some EU members are pushing for the summit at least to pledge five billion euros to Ukraine via EPF next year, a plan EU foreign ministers will discuss on Monday with their Ukrainian counterpart.

Despite the gloomy outlook, some Brussels diplomats believe the bloc will avoid the worst-case scenario and deliver on some of the promises made to Ukraine.

"Will it be difficult? Yes. Will it be extremely difficult? Most likely. Will there be blood in the air at some point? Probably," said a second senior EU official. "But I continue to think it's possible to find solutions."

_______

[Amled]

...and then there's Fico of Slovakia, he's also in Putin's pocket!

[TopHatter]

Finland, NATO's newest member, will sign a defense pact with the United States


Closed Vaalimaa border check point between Finland and Russia is pictured in Virolahti, Finland, Wednesday Dec. 13, 2023. NATO’s newest member and Russia’s neighbor Finland is to sign a bilateral defense cooperation agreement next week with the United States in a deal that allows Washington to send troops into the Nordic country and to store weapons and equipment there.

HELSINKI (AP) — NATO’s newest member, Finland, which shares a border with Russia, is to sign a bilateral defense cooperation agreement next week with the United States in a deal that allows Washington to send troops into the Nordic country to bolster its defense and store weapons and military equipment there, among other things.

Finnish Foreign Minister Elina Valtonen told a news conference in Helsinki on Thursday that Defense Minister Antti Häkkänen will sign the so-called Defense Cooperation Agreement, or DCA, in Washington on Monday, Dec. 18.

The pact, which must still be approved by Finnish lawmakers, “is very significant for Finland’s defense and security,” Häkkänen said, stressing that the deal is judicially binding on both sides.

“It bears a very strong message in this time. The United States is committed to our defense also in a tough spot,” Häkkänen told reporters.

Finland joined NATO in April after decades of military non-alignment as a direct result of Russia’s assault on Ukraine that started in February 2022. The nation of 5.6 million shares a 1,340-kilometer (830-mile) border with Russia that makes up a significant part of NATO’s northeastern flank and acts as the European Union’s external border in the north.

Under the deal, Finland will allow U.S. soldiers access to 15 military areas and facilities covering the entire Nordic nation all the way from a key southern naval base and inland air bases to a vast remote army training area in Lapland, in the Arctic north.

American troops are allowed a permanent presence and regular exercises in Finland but there are no plans to establish permanent U.S. military bases in Finland, officials said.

Several NATO countries currently have similar bilateral defense agreements with the United States.

Last week, Finland’s close Nordic neighbor Sweden, which is on the brink of joining NATO, signed a comparable deal. Alliance member Denmark is expected to do so in the near future.
________

Dear god that looks COLD....

[Albany Rifles]

Dear god that looks COLD....

Spoken like a Floridian!

[tbm3fan]

Spoken like a Floridian!

"Dear God" must be the give away. Being Californian I would have said it looks cold and right now it is 34 degrees outside.

Now you are going to give me shit about it only being 34.

[TopHatter]

Spoken like a Floridian!

"Dear God" must be the give away. Being Californian I would have said it looks cold and right now it is 34 degrees outside.

Now you are going to give me shit about it only being 34.

When you're used to month after month of 95 degrees and 100 percent humidity, even 60 degrees is considered chilly

[Monash]

When you're used to month after month of 95 degrees and 100 percent humidity, even 60 degrees is considered chilly

The suffering, the suffering.

[TopHatter]

The suffering, the suffering.

The horror...the horror....

[TopHatter]

A new deal gives the US military 'unimpeded access' to Sweden's bases — including a vital outpost in the heart of northern Europe



A Swedish Gripen E fighter jet over Gotland Island in May 2022.

• The US and Sweden signed a defense cooperation agreement on December 6.
• The agreement grants the US access to and use of 17 Swedish facilities, including on Gotland Island.
• Gotland is a strategically valuable outpost in the middle of the Baltic Sea.

On December 6, the US and Sweden signed a defense cooperation agreement that will significantly strengthen their military links and increase US presence in an important region amid heightened tension with Russia.

The agreement gives US forces access to several Swedish bases and facilities, allows the US to preposition equipment in the country, and establishes conditions under which US troops deployed to Sweden will operate. It will permit US forces to quickly react to a crisis in the area.

The agreement "sends a strong signal that we remain committed to addressing security challenges together," Swedish Defense Minister Pal Jonson said. Although not explicitly mentioned in the agreement, Jonson said that no US nuclear weapons will be stored in Sweden.

Sweden had traditionally been militarily non-aligned, working closely with NATO but never joining, but Russia's attack on Ukraine last year led to it apply to join NATO alongside Finland.

Sweden's application has yet to be approved, but Jason Moyer, an associate at the Wilson Center think tank in Washington DC, said the defense cooperation agreement "provides some stability and assurances" for Sweden, further enmeshes it within NATO, and deepens its bilateral relationship with the US.

Accessing crucial locations


Military vehicles and personnel in the village of Endre on Gotland Island during an exercise in June 2022.

According to the agreement, the US will receive "unimpeded access" to and "use" of 17 Swedish facilities, five of which are air bases or airports and one a harbor.

Four of these facilities, including two air bases, are within the Arctic Circle, where the US military and its NATO allies have been spending more time in recent years.

A number of the other Swedish facilities the US will receive access to lie along the Baltic Sea. The Russian city of St. Petersburg and its Kaliningrad exclave also border the sea, but the rest of its coastline is occupied by NATO members — Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Poland — leading to the Baltic being described as a "NATO lake."

Perhaps the most important of those Swedish facilities are the ones around Visby on Gotland Island.


A US Marine Corps vehicle lands on Gotland Island during an exercise in June 2022.

The island, which is Sweden's largest and has a population of about 60,000, sits in the middle of the Baltic, roughly halfway between Sweden and the three Baltic countries, and looks over sea lanes Russian forces would have to traverse to reach Kaliningrad or the Atlantic.

In the event of a war, forces on Gotland could support the Baltics and Poland, pressure Kaliningrad, and limit Russian naval activity in the Baltic. Conversely, if Russia captured the island, it could better isolate the Baltic states and pressure allied shipping, denying NATO freedom of movement in the area.

Gotland's location has thus given it prime military importance. During exercises there in 2017, the commanding general of US Army Europe at the time told the island's Swedish garrison that they had "a strategically very important task here. I do not think there is any island anywhere that is more important."


Swedish troops in Gotland's Visby harbor during an exercise in September 2016.S

Sweden demilitarized the island in 2005, as tensions with Russia declined following the Cold War. But Stockholm reintroduced a permanent garrison in 2016, following Russia's attack on Ukraine and illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014.

Sweden has continued to increase its defenses on the island by deploying a mechanized and an amphibious battalion. In 2021, it reintroduced medium-range surface-to-air missiles batteries, which can take down jets, missiles, and drones. Sweden regularly holds exercises with NATO militaries on the island.

Besides the facilities, the ability to preposition and store materiel in Sweden would allow the US to use the country's "geostrategic location at the center of the Nordics to supply allies in the Baltic Sea region in the event of an expanded campaign of Russian aggression," Moyer told Business Insider.

Nordic agreements


Norwegian, Latvian, Finnish, Danish, Swedish, Estonian, Icelandic, and Lithuanian officials on Gotland after a Nordic-Baltic Defense Ministers' meeting in September 2022.

The Nordic region is increasingly being integrated intro a transatlantic security framework, Moyer said. Sweden's parliament still needs to approve the agreement for it to go into effect, which it is expected to do in 2024, and it will be one of several the US has with countries in the region.

In 2021, the US signed a defense cooperation agreement with NATO member Norway granting it access to Norwegian bases and the ability to preposition materiel there. The agreement went into effect last year.

The US and Finland are poised to sign their own defense cooperation agreement. Among the Finnish facilities that the US will gain access is Russarö Island. The island, which is off-limits to the public, sits at the opening of the Gulf of Finland, a channel connecting St. Petersburg to the Baltic Sea. The US is also negotiating a defense cooperation agreement with Denmark, which sits at the mouth of the Baltic Sea.

"These agreements play a vital role in deterring Russian aggression," Moyer said. "Russia has the capacity to reconstitute much of its military capabilities in the next 3-5 years. Now is the time to tangibly move forward on defense cooperation amongst allies."
_______