NATO membership for Sweden and Finland

[TopHatter]

https://twitter.com/jensstoltenberg/...84703060324359

Erdogan agrees to pass the Sweden to NATO to the Turkish assembly for ratification.

He said he would guarantee passage!

Ehhh....something had to have suddenly happened.

[Albany Rifles]

Ehhh....something had to have suddenly happened.

Well...the US Senate is withholding a bunch of military aid to Turkey til they start playing nice like a proper NATO ally.

[TopHatter]

Well...the US Senate is withholding a bunch of military aid to Turkey til they start playing nice like a proper NATO ally.

But they've been doing that for quite some time now. Something very recent - meaning today - had to have happened.

[Amled]

But they've been doing that for quite some time now. Something very recent - meaning today - had to have happened.

Great news; whatever happened!
That said, I wonder who it was that had to surrender their first born!
Still, never been happier to loose a bet!
A bottle of Bushmills given well out!

[Bigfella]

However it got done, it looks to be done. Sweden in. Great news. Ukraine next please.

[tbm3fan]

Well...the US Senate is withholding a bunch of military aid to Turkey til they start playing nice like a proper NATO ally.

and someone tell me how, during the creation of NATO, it was decided that one country could have veto power over another joining? One country.

[Amled]

and someone tell me how, during the creation of NATO, it was decided that one country could have veto power over another joining? One country.

Yahh, hindsight is a dyed in the wool bitch!
But I guess that back in ’49 no one could imagine sovereign democratic countries moving; without any armed conflict, toward autocratic rule!
Not only that, but they would use the wording in the NATO charter, to sow disunity in an Alliance based on unity!

[Officer of Engineers]

and someone tell me how, during the creation of NATO, it was decided that one country could have veto power over another joining? One country.

Because the alternative is the Warsaw Pact way of doing things where you get out-voted by pro-Moscow voices.

[Albany Rifles]

Here is the story on how Joe Biden got the deal done. It also highlights the Senate roadblock had a real effect. Turkey really needs these F-16s...they are the latest Block they are needed to replace Turkey's ancient fleet of F4E Phantom IIs which are used as tactical bombers. Turkey does have the capacity to build F-16s but they are of the old Blocks not the oldest.

It's from the Washington Post but his behind a paywall.


How the Biden administration sealed the Sweden deal with Erdogan


July 10, 2023 at 19:46 ET

NATO summits usually start with drama and often end with a happy family photo. This time, the drama was over before the summit even started.

During the run-up to the summit in Vilnius, Lithuania, all eyes were on Ukraine’s prospects for membership. But Sweden’s membership bid was also up in the air, held up by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan knew that Vilnius was the moment he could extract maximal concessions from the West. However, the breakthrough on Swedish membership came earlier than everyone expected. Erdogan drove a hard bargain but, behind the scenes, President Biden and his team worked hard to get Erdogan to “yes” and are to be applauded for their efforts. The cutthroat geopolitical competition against China and Russia does not give Washington the luxury to maintain its policy of social distancing toward Erdogan, despite his awful record on democracy.

Over the past few days, Erdogan had pushed aside NATO’s boilerplate language on alliance solidarity and had forced the West to address his demands. He met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and declared that Ukraine was fit to be a member of NATO, only to also remark that Sweden was not yet ready to join the alliance — that it needed to do more on “terrorism” (a reference to Sweden allowing supporters of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, to hold protests in Stockholm). He then urged the alliance to send a “clear and strong message” about Turkey’s bid to join the European Union — even though membership for his country in the E.U. is likely a pipe dream. Behind all the public bluster, Erdogan’s most important ask has long been clear: He needs the United States to sell him F-16s. Turkey made a strategic blunder in 2017 by purchasing S-400 missile systems from Russia only to be slapped with U.S. sanctions. Now that Ankara desperately needs to modernize its air force fleet, it has made a formal request to buy new F-16s and upgrade 80 planes in its existing inventory.

The Biden administration has long been in favor of the transaction, but Congress had been blocking it. For many lawmakers on Capitol Hill, Turkey has been an “unfaithful ally,” and congressional leaders have expressed reservations about Turkey’s democratic backsliding and its threatening tone toward its neighbors, including Greece. According to my sources, the White House made headway over the weekend in convincing congressional leaders — in particular, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) — that it is better to keep Turkey inside the NATO tent by going ahead with the sale.

On Sunday, Erdogan pointedly thanked Biden for his efforts in trying to secure the F-16s. On Monday afternoon, after NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg’s announcement that Turkey would ratify Sweden’s entry into NATO, Biden’s official statement read “I stand ready to work with President Erdogan and [Turkey] on enhancing defense and deterrence in the Euro-Atlantic area.” The F-16s might not come immediately, but it’s likely that strong assurances were given that they would eventually be delivered. Erdogan also might have gotten some concessions from Europe. As part of the announcement, Sweden agreed to support expanding the E.U.’s free-trade arrangement with Turkey. With Washington lobbying behind the scenes, I understand that other E.U. members are open to negotiations.
This is an important moment — and an opening to try to reverse Turkey’s drift. Erdogan had already signaled this weekend that he can be a critical partner for Europe by showing solidarity regarding Ukraine. He signed new defense and reconstruction deals with Zelensky, and let him repatriate several Ukrainian military commanders who were being held in Istanbul as part of a prisoner exchange deal with Russia. That move has angered the Kremlin.

Erdogan knows that his endless geopolitical balancing has alienated Europe, which is Turkey’s largest export market. His dalliances with Russian President Vladimir Putin misjudged how unified NATO countries are in supporting Ukraine — and how threatened Europe feels by Russian aggression. At the end of the day, Erdogan is a pragmatist. With an unstable Russia on his doorstep and a troubled economy at home, he knows Turkey needs better relations with the West. At the Vilnius summit, Erdogan will be celebrated as a statesman and can use the moment to see what other agreements can be struck. But the window of opportunity for better relations with NATO and the West will not be open forever. For more thawing, Turkey will have to be willing to work on domestic issues as well. Its demand for E.U. visa liberalization for Turkish citizens will have to be met with substantive changes to Turkey’s draconian anti-terror law. For their part, Europeans would be wise to carefully explore just what Erdogan might be willing to trade on. The Sweden deal potentially opens the possibility of Turkey further aligning itself on Ukraine, and on pushing back against Russia in Syria and the Black Sea. That’s no small thing, and the Biden administration should feel justifiably proud for achieving this much. Biden and Erdogan are set to meet face to face in Vilnius, and Erdogan might be invited to the White House later this year. If both Turkey and the West play their cards right, a wider reset could be in the offing.

[Bigfella]

The scale of Putin's achievement here cannot be understated. He has reinvigourated and explanded a NATO alliance whose major members have looked less than interested for a while AND he has made his nation all but useless to Turkiye. Erdogan is a great survivor and he can see that NATO & the EU are the only game in town right now.

Rather than driving wedges into NATO Vlad has brought them together. The last Russian leader who was this good for NATO was a short bloke with a big bushy mo.

[Albany Rifles]

The scale of Putin's achievement here cannot be understated. He has reinvigourated and explanded a NATO alliance whose major members have looked less than interested for a while AND he has made his nation all but useless to Turkiye. Erdogan is a great survivor and he can see that NATO & the EU are the only game in town right now.

Rather than driving wedges into NATO Vlad has brought them together. The last Russian leader who was this good for NATO was a short bloke with a big bushy mo.

This would be the perfect space for your ABBA message on Facebook yesterday!

[astralis]

I think the ultimate irony is that Turkiye would have gotten F-35s. now they get to watch as their archenemy Greece gets F-35s.

hope Erdogan is enjoying his non-op S-400.

[Monash]

The scale of Putin's achievement here cannot be understated. He has reinvigourated and explanded a NATO alliance whose major members have looked less than interested for a while AND he has made his nation all but useless to Turkiye. Erdogan is a great survivor and he can see that NATO & the EU are the only game in town right now.

Rather than driving wedges into NATO Vlad has brought them together. The last Russian leader who was this good for NATO was a short bloke with a big bushy mo.

Beyond that even were Ukraine to surrender to Russia tomorrow there's nothing Russia can do to force the West to end it's sanctions. The EU has weaned itself off Russian fossil fuels and established new supply contracts, yes that process was painful but it's been done. So now it can afford to keep it's current economic choke-hold in place more or less indefinitely. How's Vlad going to sell that to the average Russian as a 'win' for the Rodina?

[Amled]

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/07/...-erdogan-says/

Turkey won’t clear Sweden\s way into NATO for 3 months, Erdogan says

The slimy SOB is pulling a repeat of what he did over a year ago at the Madrid summit!
Where he grandly announced; to the approval of virtual the entire NATO council, that he no longer opposed Finland and Sweden joining the NATO alliance.
After which; for over a year raising the bar on his demands, the two countries complied; with what were essentially ultimatums!
Here we are again, this time Sweden alone is being compelled to dance to his tune!
A repeat of the grand announcement that he would drop his opposition to Sweden joining the alliance…but not for three months!
He claims that his rubber-stamp parliament has to give their approval, and they don’t meet until October!
Guess what they met in session only a couple of days ago, and he could easily have gotten the matter settled then and there…but nooo!
Leave the Swedes dangling a bit longer! Who knows what other concessions the SOB might be able squeeze out of them; or others!!!
Putin is coming to Turkey on a state visit next month (Something that in itself is a bit odious!)
I think it’s normal for a visiting head of state to bring a gift to the head of state of the host nation; thirty pieces of silver might be appropriate!

[Bigfella]

Beyond that even were Ukraine to surrender to Russia tomorrow there's nothing Russia can do to force the West to end it's sanctions. The EU has weaned itself off Russian fossil fuels and established new supply contracts, yes that process was painful but it's been done. So now it can afford to keep it's current economic choke-hold in place more or less indefinitely. How's Vlad going to sell that to the average Russian as a 'win' for the Rodina?

Yeah. Russia really fucked itself there. I can see some EU nations buying again at some point, but that market will never be what it was. Meanwhile China & others will be able to buy from a motivated seller at bargain prices. Oh dear.