NATO membership for Sweden and Finland

[Red Team]

Finland is officially the latest member of the alliance.

[TopHatter]

Finland is officially the latest member of the alliance.

Putin the Genius succeeds again.

[Red Team]

A question for our military and defense professional Wabbits, what are your opinions on Finland in terms of the capabilities and strategic value it brings to NATO?

[Officer of Engineers]

A damned good army and a better hockey team (grumble, grumble). The Swedes and Finns knocked out the Northern Flank option. While neutral, there was always the scenario that the Swedes or the Finns individually could not hold back a Soviet thrust against our Northern Flank if either one of the two sides with the Soviets. Finland joining NATO effectively knocked out that option even if Russia somehow regain Soviet might. We can provide munitions and re-enforcement before the Finns can go bingo on either one. Adding in Sweden and we've just added offensive airpower might into Russia.

[Albany Rifles]

Wikipedia does a decent job laying out their capabilities. Bottomline...they are not to be trifled with. Plus it would absolutely blow to try to attack through that terrain...makes The Ardennes look like a dog track in comparison.

[Red Team]

Just saw this recent video from back in 2020. It's somewhat dramatized, but a pretty good layman's outline of Finland's capabilities.

[tbm3fan]

Finland is officially the latest member of the alliance.

... and the Russian Defense Minister says they will need to move forces to the border to ensure Russian security against NATO infringement.

He has spare troops???

[Albany Rifles]

... and the Russian Defense Minister says they will need to move forces to the border to ensure Russian security against NATO infringement.

He has spare troops???

He never said they would be the good ones.

Actually, reminds me the way the Allies tied down tens of thousands of German troops in Norway and Denmark. Never intended to invade but those were assets which couldn't go to Italy or NW Europe.

[Amled]

https://www.teletrader.com/turkey-sw...tails/59769816

On one hand Turkey is trying to give the appearance of being “magnanimous and open minded” in voting for Finland’s ratification in NATO. While with the other hand they insist on twisting the knife in Sweden’s gut!!!
A recent statement by Turkey’s Foreign Minister makes this clear:

Turkey: Sweden must do more for NATO ratification

A recent conversation with a cousin up in Sweden made it clear that Swedes are well aware that they are just a chip being played by Erdogan!
It’s one thing being played by someone! It’s another thing entirely to be aware that you are being played, and have to grit your teeth and bear it!
The Turkish foreign Minister also had a little dig at NATO’s newest member; Finland:

…that Finland also needs to do more to counter terrorism.

It seems that the esteemed gentleman forgot that Finland is now a full member of the alliance, as such they need no longer need to run around the arena, and be made to jump through hoops at the behest of a Turkish taskmaster.
…and as such they can tell the esteemed gentleman to take his demand… and stick it up where the sun don’t shine!!!

[TopHatter]

In Russia's St Petersburg, locals say Finland 'making problems' with NATO accession

ST PETERSBURG (Reuters) - Citizens of St Petersburg, the Russian city closest to Finland, on Tuesday accused their neighbour of turning its back on them by joining the Western military alliance NATO, following their government's line that the accession was a hostile act.

Before Russia sent its armed forces into Ukraine early last year, people in Russia's second city had been fond of visiting the Finnish capital Helsinki, about five hours' drive away.

"I don't think anything will change for us," said St. Petersburg resident Yevgeny, who like others declined to give his surname. "It'll only get worse for the Finns because we won't go there, and they'll only incur losses from this."

Another resident, Nikolai, said Finland was "making problems for itself".

"We used to consider it a brotherly country of the capitalist world, the closest to us in spirit, in relations, in mutually-beneficial economic relations," he said. "But now we'll consider it as a state that is unfriendly to us."

None of the five people Reuters spoke to sympathised with Finland's decision to give up its neutrality because of Russia's military campaign in Ukraine, also a neighbour of Russia.

What Russia calls a "special military operation" in Ukraine to defuse a purported NATO threat to Russian security has echoes of the 1939 Soviet invasion of Finland, formerly part of the Russian empire, which resulted in Finland ceding a large part of its territory.

"This is just a conspiracy by the Anglo-Saxon world," said Vasily, echoing the stance taken by the Kremlin. "We have always had good neighbourly relations with Finland."

Another citizen, Alexei, had a recommendation for Finland: "If they wanted to unite with Russia against NATO, then I would be glad."
_______

Sounds like people don't want a visit from the FSB...

[Amled]

In Russia's St Petersburg, locals say Finland 'making problems' with NATO accession

ST PETERSBURG (Reuters) - Citizens of St Petersburg, the Russian city closest to Finland, on Tuesday accused their neighbour of turning its back on them by joining the Western military alliance NATO, following their government's line that the accession was a hostile act.

Before Russia sent its armed forces into Ukraine early last year, people in Russia's second city had been fond of visiting the Finnish capital Helsinki, about five hours' drive away.

"I don't think anything will change for us," said St. Petersburg resident Yevgeny, who like others declined to give his surname. "It'll only get worse for the Finns because we won't go there, and they'll only incur losses from this."

Another resident, Nikolai, said Finland was "making problems for itself".

"We used to consider it a brotherly country of the capitalist world, the closest to us in spirit, in relations, in mutually-beneficial economic relations," he said. "But now we'll consider it as a state that is unfriendly to us."

None of the five people Reuters spoke to sympathised with Finland's decision to give up its neutrality because of Russia's military campaign in Ukraine, also a neighbour of Russia.

What Russia calls a "special military operation" in Ukraine to defuse a purported NATO threat to Russian security has echoes of the 1939 Soviet invasion of Finland, formerly part of the Russian empire, which resulted in Finland ceding a large part of its territory.

"This is just a conspiracy by the Anglo-Saxon world," said Vasily, echoing the stance taken by the Kremlin. "We have always had good neighbourly relations with Finland."

Another citizen, Alexei, had a recommendation for Finland: "If they wanted to unite with Russia against NATO, then I would be glad."
_______

Sounds like people don't want a visit from the FSB...

I for one hope that they are saying what they are saying out of respect for hidden microphones!
The alternative would be that the Russian man in the street really has bought in to Putin's dream of a pan-Russian resurgence!

"...We have always had good neighbourly relations with Finland."

You have to wonder if they even study history in Russia?
Do they think that the Finns stood along the roads waving flags welcoming the Russian invaders in 1938-39!

[Officer of Engineers]

I for one hope that they are saying what they are saying out of respect for hidden microphones!
The alternative would be that the Russian man in the street really has bought in to Putin's dream of a pan-Russian resurgence!

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. Putin enjoys popular support.

You have to wonder if they even study history in Russia?
Do they think that the Finns stood along the roads waving flags welcoming the Russian invaders in 1938-39!

The Finns pay that back already when they marched all the way to Stalingrad.

[Ironduke]

The Finns pay that back already when they marched all the way to Stalingrad.

My impression was that the Finns stopped their advances in August 1941 up to and perhaps a hair past the pre-Winter War boundaries, and went no further, and stayed put for three years until Soviet offensives in 1944. They even rebuffed repeated German requests to help with Leningrad. I've never read anything about Finns doing anything but staying put from August '41 to June '44, and certainly heard nothing about their participation in the Battle of Stalingrad.

[Officer of Engineers]

My impression was that the Finns stopped their advances in August 1941 up to and perhaps a hair past the pre-Winter War boundaries, and went no further, and stayed put for three years until Soviet offensives in 1944. They even rebuffed repeated German requests to help with Leningrad. I've never read anything about Finns doing anything but staying put from August '41 to June '44, and certainly heard nothing about their participation in the Battle of Stalingrad.

Brain fart. You're right except they participated in the siege of Leningrad.

[Ironduke]

Brain fart. You're right except they participated in the siege of Leningrad.

The Finns weren't too far away from Leningrad. They had advanced just a few miles past their old borders to occupy more defensible positions in more favorable terrain. They could have cut the ice road across Lake Lagoda, but refused repeated German requests to do so.

I think it would be more apt to describe Finnish participation as "being nearby" and happening to fix some Soviet forces, though this fixing was not matter of intentional strategy on their part. The Finns seemed only interested in restoring their pre-war borders.