NATO membership for Sweden and Finland

[Chunder]

Seems to me as though Turkey is quite happy to run with the wolves & hunt with the hounds.

[Bigfella]

Seems to me as though Turkey is quite happy to run with the wolves & hunt with the hounds.

Turkey knows it is important so Erdogan is seeing just how effectively he can play both sides of the fence. Been doing it for years. maybe there will be a serious consequence at some point, but if Erdogan can't get something useful to him now he won't have to worry about that.

Teeth will need to be gritted & deals done.

[Chunder]

Oh I think keeping the overarching agreement is worthwhile - but putting it on ice may be best for now - I'm not sure he's got many years left in him.

[Amled]

Turkey knows it is important so Erdogan is seeing just how effectively he can play both sides of the fence. Been doing it for years. maybe there will be a serious consequence at some point, but if Erdogan can't get something useful to him now he won't have to worry about that.

Teeth will need to be gritted & deals done.

There comes a time when it’s not possible to grit your teeth, and be forced take an unpalatable deal;
in spite of it being the “right” thing to do!
Erdogan wants his pound of flesh; 73 Kurds from Sweden, and 12 from Finland returned to face Turkish “justice”!
He has to know that these people have been granted political refugee status in their host country, and in some become citizens.
That unlike in his Autocratic state, they can’t be deprived of their status without due process; which in western democracies are a lengthy procedure.
I don’t foresee the Finnish or Swedish government making a “Sophie’s Choice”, and tossing the Kurds to the lions in the spirit of:
“…the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few”!
In some ways it is similar to what Putin used at the beginning of his war. Making demands he knew were unfulfillable.
There was a number of talking heads that agreed that his ultimate demands were bargaining ploys;
designed to be thrown away for what he really wanted.
They were wrong!
Erdogan must be aware that his demands are just as unreasonable, at least in the short term.
So unless he is able to be bought off with the repeal of the arms embargo levied against Turkey, the Finns and Swedes are left out in the cold!
…and Putin the Putz is laughing his ass off!!!

[Amled]

Kipling wrote of the inadvisability of paying “Danegeld” (giving in to extortion!)
in that the “Dane” inevitably will return for more.
Here we have Erdogan in the role of the Dane!!!
https://sweden.postsen.com/news/2420...-get-more.html

[TopHatter]

Sweden agrees to extradite man to Turkey in wake of NATO deal

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden's government has decided to extradite a man to Turkey wanted for fraud, it said on Thursday, the first case since Turkey demanded a number of people extradited in return for allowing Stockholm to formally apply for NATO membership.

NATO ally Turkey lifted its veto over Finland and Sweden's bid to join the Western alliance in June after weeks of tense negotiations where Ankara accused the two Nordic countries of harbouring what Turkey says are militants of the banned Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).

As part of the deal, Turkey submitted a list of people it wanted Sweden to extradite, but has since expressed frustration over the lack of progress.

The man, in his 30s, would be the first known case of an extradition to Turkey since the deal was struck.

"This is a normal routine matter. The person in question is a Turkish citizen and convicted of fraud offences in Turkey in 2013 and 2016," Minister of Justice Morgan Johansson told Reuters in a text message.

"The Supreme Court has examined the issue as usual and concluded that there are no obstacles to extradition," he said.

A spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice declined to say if the man was on the list of people Turkey has demanded to have extradited or to provide further comment on the matter.

Swedish broadcaster SVT, which was first to report on the extradition, said the man was sentenced in Turkey to 14 years in prison on several accounts of bank card fraud.

The man, detained in Sweden since last year, says he has been wrongfully sentenced because he is a convert to Christianity, refused to do military service and has Kurdish roots, SVT said.
________

[Amled]

Sweden agrees to extradite man to Turkey in wake of NATO deal

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden's government has decided to extradite a man to Turkey wanted for fraud, it said on Thursday, the first case since Turkey demanded a number of people extradited in return for allowing Stockholm to formally apply for NATO membership.

NATO ally Turkey lifted its veto over Finland and Sweden's bid to join the Western alliance in June after weeks of tense negotiations where Ankara accused the two Nordic countries of harbouring what Turkey says are militants of the banned Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).

As part of the deal, Turkey submitted a list of people it wanted Sweden to extradite, but has since expressed frustration over the lack of progress.

The man, in his 30s, would be the first known case of an extradition to Turkey since the deal was struck.

"This is a normal routine matter. The person in question is a Turkish citizen and convicted of fraud offences in Turkey in 2013 and 2016," Minister of Justice Morgan Johansson told Reuters in a text message.

"The Supreme Court has examined the issue as usual and concluded that there are no obstacles to extradition," he said.

A spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice declined to say if the man was on the list of people Turkey has demanded to have extradited or to provide further comment on the matter.

Swedish broadcaster SVT, which was first to report on the extradition, said the man was sentenced in Turkey to 14 years in prison on several accounts of bank card fraud.

The man, detained in Sweden since last year, says he has been wrongfully sentenced because he is a convert to Christianity, refused to do military service and has Kurdish roots, SVT said.
________

I checked an article in a Swedish paper, and apparently the man had been in police custody for more than a year,
pending deportation back to Turkey for incarceration for fraud. His case was decide months before Sweden’s NATO application,
Maybe the poor schmuck can be used as a “fig leaf” for both Sweden and Turkey!
The Swedes can claim to live up to agreement to “deport” criminal Kurds.
Turkey can point to the “schmuck” and claim to have gotten Sweden to accede to Erdogan’s demands!
Poor schmuck!!!

[Amled]

A question directed to those with more political and military savvy then a layman like me.
The question is about the advisability of Turkey’s buying high-end Russian anti-missile units!
In 1949 NATO was founded; pretty words aside, to rein in Russia’s (USSR, same difference!) predisposition for expansionism,
a condition that exists to this day.
So is it really in NATO’s interest that one of its members is playing patty-cake with the very nation that the Alliance exists to curtail?
Even going as far as buying military equipment from said nation?

Could not the S-400ADS come complete with a backdoor access possible?
I know that is one of the most persistent arguments against using the Chinese G-5 technology,
that they might grant unwanted backdoor access

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/ar...giment-confirm

[kato]

In 1949 NATO was founded; pretty words aside, to rein in Russia's predisposition for expansionism

“keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” in Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay's words.

And yes, that is a rather different set of purpose.

[kato]

The Swedes can claim to live up to agreement to “deport” criminal Kurds.

Sweden already deported four Kurds to Turkey last month (according to Kurdish-Swedish parliament representative Amineh Kakabaveh).

Erdogan has a list of 73 Turks, mostly Kurds and Gülen followers that he wants extradited from both countries. 33 of these are supposedly accused on terror charges in Turkey, meaning no civilized country would extradite them.

[Amled]

“keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” in Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay's words.

And yes, that is a rather different set of purpose.

You have to wonder if this little quip came back to haunt him!
He probably made it in the early ‘50’s, then but a few years later in in ’55 Germany became a member of selfsame Alliance!
Then again he was an old warrior, and as such must have been well aware:
: …yesterday’s enemy are often tomorrows friends!

[kato]

but a few years later in in ’55 Germany became a member of selfsame Alliance!

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[Officer of Engineers]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

*** Recalling Monday morning Parade hangovers *** More like you drank us under the table.

[Amled]

For more the 70 years Russia had no problems with Finland’s political life!
Now in less than 6 months the Kremlin’s propagandists are trying to characterize the Finn’s as crypto-fascists.
Invading, destroying the cities, killing the innocent civilians of a neighboring state,
would seem to anyone with at least a modicum of intelligence, archetypical of a fascist turn of mind.
Finland has yet to turn it formidable military loose on its neighbors, as for Russia on the other hand…
There’s a saying about: “throwing rocks while living in a glass house”!!!
https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_di...-to-join-nato/

[Albany Rifles]

*** Recalling Monday morning Parade hangovers *** More like you drank us under the table.

When I was a captain our battalion commander used to schedule battalion runs for Monday mornings when the norm was Friday. One day over a cup of coffee I asked why…he said simple…the troops would stop drinking earlier on Sundays and therefore be more clearheaded for the week.

I learned a lot from that man. Rest In Peace COL(Ret) Keith L. Young 1949-2021