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  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

    Good reminders, hadn't considered either of those points, especially the House. Damn shame, it would've been a dandy litmus test.

    I suspect both the incredibly important resolution and the subsequent treaty proposal will sail through the Senate.

    Then all we have to do is hope and pray that Biden will sign it. I have grave doubts that he will even consider it though.

    It would be a shining moment of national unity and a great big FU to Putin if both Senate votes were unanimous but there's always the possibility that some ratfucker will spoil things.

    Josh Hawley is at the top of that list.
    I have no fears about Biden signing it...and I hope its a big ceremony with the ambassadors from Sweden & Finland as well as our Ambassador to NATO are there along with the entire cabinet and Congressional Gang of 8.

    What will also be interesting outcome of this is enhanced intelligence sharing from those 2. That is important given Russia's Arctic activities.

    And Hawley is the first ratfucker to come to mind as well.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

      I have no fears about Biden signing it...
      Neither do I

      And a huge ceremony would be the perfect poke in the eye to Putin. Maybe they could have an awards ceremony first and present him a "Best NATO Recruiter" medal over Zoom or something.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • Delegations from Sweden, Finland hold NATO talks in Turkey

        ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Senior officials from Sweden and Finland met with Turkish counterparts in Ankara on Wednesday in an effort to overcome Turkey’s strong objections to the Nordic nations' bids to join NATO.

        Sweden and Finland submitted their written applications to join NATO last week. The move represents one of the biggest geopolitical ramifications of Russia’s war in Ukraine and could rewrite Europe’s security map.

        Turkey has said it opposes the countries’ membership in the Western military alliance, citing grievances with Sweden's — and a to a lesser extent Finland’s — perceived support of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, and other entities that Turkey views as security threats.

        The PKK, which is listed as a terror organization by several of Turkey’s allies, has waged a decades-long insurgency against Turkey, a conflict that has cost the lives of tens of thousands people.

        The Turkish government also accuses Finland and Sweden of imposing arms exports restrictions on Turkey and refusing to extradite suspected “terrorists.”

        Turkey’s objections have dampened Stockholm's and Helsinki’s hopes for joining NATO quickly amid Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and put the trans-Atlantic alliance's credibility at stake. All 30 NATO members must agree on admitting new members.

        The Swedish and Finnish delegations met with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's spokesman, Ibrahim Kalin, and Turkish Deputy Foreign Minister Sedat Onal. The Swedish delegation was led by state secretary Oscar Stenstrom, while Jukka Salovaara, the foreign ministry undersecretary, headed up the Finnish delegation, Turkish officials have said.

        Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said following a meeting with European Council President Charles Michel in Stockholm that her country wanted to “clarify” claims that have been floating around during discussions with Turkey.

        “We do not send money or weapons to terrorist organizations,” Andersson said.

        During a news conference with the Estonian prime minister later Wednesday, Andersson said that “in these times, it is important to strengthen our security.”

        She said Sweden has “a constructive dialogue” with Turkey and that Stockholm was “eager to sort out issues and misunderstandings and questions.”

        Michel, who is scheduled to head to Helsinki from Stockholm, said it was “a pivotal moment for Sweden" and “we fully support your choices.”

        Turkey this week listed five “concrete assurances” it was demanding from Sweden, including what it said was “termination of political support for terrorism,” an “elimination of the source of terrorism financing,” and the “cessation of arms support” to the banned PKK and a Syrian Kurdish militia group affiliated with it.

        The demands also called for the lifting of arms sanctions against Turkey and global cooperation against terrorism.

        Turkey said that it has requested the extradition of Kurdish militants and other suspects since 2017 but hasn’t received a positive response from Stockholm. The Turkish government claimed Sweden had decided to provide $376 million to support the Kurdish militants in 2023 and that it had provided them with military equipment, including anti-tank weapons and drones.

        Finland has received nine extradition requests from Turkey in a recent period covering over three years, Finnish news agency STT said Wednesday, citing data from the Finnish justice ministry. Two people were extradited, six of the requests were rejected. A decision was pending regarding one other case.

        Sweden has denied providing financial assistance or military support to Kurdish groups or entities in Syria.

        “Sweden is a major humanitarian donor to the Syria crisis through global allocations to humanitarian actors,” Foreign Minister Ann Linde told the Aftonbladet newspaper.

        “Cooperation in northeastern Syria is carried out primarily through the United Nations and international organizations,” she said. “Sweden doesn't provide targeted support to Syrian Kurds or to the political or military structures in northeastern Syria, but the population in these areas is, of course, taking part in these aid projects.”

        Speaking Tuesday before a meeting of the Council of the Baltic Sea States, German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said Russia had left Sweden and Finland “no choice” but to join NATO.

        She said Germany would support the two countries’ membership, calling it “a real gain” for the military alliance.

        __
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

          Neither do I

          And a huge ceremony would be the perfect poke in the eye to Putin. Maybe they could have an awards ceremony first and present him a "Best NATO Recruiter" medal over Zoom or something.

          I have the perfect award for him...

          Click image for larger version

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          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            I have the perfect award for him...
            I'd love to personally present that to him
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Amled View Post
              I was up in Sweden a couple of weeks ago to a family reunion, with a couple of cousins. Over the years I had noticed a change in their attitude: regarding Swedish neutrality.
              Your domestic politics seem to have escaped into the wild

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_S...neral_election

              You go to the polls in September. So every party is going to say what is good for them.

              Originally posted by Amled View Post
              Like most Swedes they had been perfectly at ease with the country’s neutrality policy, right up until a couple of years ago, when Russia held a fleet exercise in the Baltic that included a mock air attack (in International waters!) on Stockholm
              Why would Russia need to do that? Things were said that led them to do it.

              I see the start date of this topic is from 2015

              Originally posted by Amled View Post
              That they weren’t the only ones who had a sea change can be seen on the poll numbers in favor of NATO membership that have gone from the mid 30’s to what it is today around 53-55%.
              Their point of view agree fully with yours: that if Finland joins, Sweden will follow!
              These numbers can change with time.

              - No war in 200 years but one exercise in the Baltic changed people's mind.

              - Sweden was neutral while Hitler was rampaging throughout Europe. You did not want to join the allies but after Ukraine it seems like a good idea.

              For some countries for reasons of geography, neutrality is the best defense. Not military. Proven. Worked against Hitler but will not against Putin.

              I do not take what Sweden is saying seriously. It seems like hysteria and coupled with election rhetoric.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 26 May 22,, 00:13.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Amled View Post
                Countries that live in crystal houses should be very careful when they throw rocks!
                Take Russia with their repetitive accusations of Nazi connections,
                when they themselves had no qualms about climbing into bed with the Nazi’s in 1939.
                Here was truly a marriage consummated in Hell that even came with a marriage contract; the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
                That was a non-aggression pact. Remind me who broke it?

                Casualties in Europe for WW2
                Allies : 1+ million
                Germany : 7 million
                Russa : 20 million

                We know who did the most fighting and most suffering against the Nazis.

                About climbing into bed with the Nazis. We should ask the Finns this question about their history.

                They decided to align with the Nazis and allowed them to invade resulting in the death of nearly a million in the siege of Leningrad.

                This is why after there was a treaty with Russia on neutrality. One which the Finns are breaking in spirit and word.

                Treaty between the Republic of Finland and the Russian Federation on the basis for relations

                Tell me why would Russia attack Finland when it says they will not do so there? Who came up with this idea.

                Their PM is just 36 years old and she is making a decision that will change life for Finland if they go ahead.
                Last edited by Double Edge; 26 May 22,, 00:31.

                Comment


                • Oh, Dmitry Peksovedge is back.
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                    Oh, Dmitry Peksovedge is back.
                    I did feel a disturbance in the force today. So the Sith is back?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                      That was a non-aggression pact. Remind me who broke it?

                      Casualties in Europe for WW2
                      Allies : 1+ million
                      Germany : 7 million
                      Russa : 20 million

                      We know who did the most fighting and most suffering against the Nazis.

                      About climbing into bed with the Nazis. We should ask the Finns this question about their history.

                      They decided to align with the Nazis and allowed them to invade resulting in the death of nearly a million in the siege of Leningrad.

                      This is why after there was a treaty with Russia on neutrality. One which the Finns are breaking in spirit and word.

                      Treaty between the Republic of Finland and the Russian Federation on the basis for relations

                      Tell me why would Russia attack Finland when it says they will not do so there? Who came up with this idea.

                      Their PM is just 36 years old and she is making a decision that will change life for Finland if they go ahead.
                      With the majority of Finns (73-78%) now in favor of NATO membership, it’s a forgone conclusion that the Swedes will follow.
                      There’s already a majority in the population, and now in the Parliament when the second largest party; Sverige Demokraterne, came onboard.
                      Also it’s not just the Russian military maneuvers in the Baltic that has changed hearts and minds in Sweden.
                      The repeated airspace violations by Russian military aircraft; the latest just last month might also have something to do with it.
                      Then there’s also the little matter of Russia invading another sovereign nation!
                      If them why not us plays in too?
                      The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was to say it plainly: an agreement between two crooks, on how to divide the loot!
                      An agreement that Russia did quite well out of!
                      That it was broken?
                      Well what can you expect with mentalities like that, Hitler just beat Stalin to the punch!”
                      As for the Finland joining Nazi Germany in the siege of Leningrad?
                      You are neglecting to mention the fact that Russia had just a year before invaded Finland, when the Finn’s refused to cede them the territory Russia demanded. Finland fought a short bloody war, and lost.
                      Russia demanding territory from a neighboring sovereign state, and going to war to take it…hmmm sounds familiar!!!



                      When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        That was a non-aggression pact. Remind me who broke it?

                        Casualties in Europe for WW2
                        Allies : 1+ million
                        Germany : 7 million
                        Russa : 20 million

                        We know who did the most fighting and most suffering against the Nazis.

                        About climbing into bed with the Nazis. We should ask the Finns this question about their history.

                        They decided to align with the Nazis and allowed them to invade resulting in the death of nearly a million in the siege of Leningrad.

                        This is why after there was a treaty with Russia on neutrality. One which the Finns are breaking in spirit and word.

                        Treaty between the Republic of Finland and the Russian Federation on the basis for relations

                        Tell me why would Russia attack Finland when it says they will not do so there? Who came up with this idea.

                        Their PM is just 36 years old and she is making a decision that will change life for Finland if they go ahead.
                        Just out of curiosity, are you still of the opinion that Russia is "liberating" Ukrainian territory?
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                          Just out of curiosity, are you still of the opinion that Russia is "liberating" Ukrainian territory?
                          Wait for it....
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                            I did feel a disturbance in the force today. So the Sith is back?
                            Sith? Give me an f***ing break. Its Jar Jar Binks - unwanted, unnecessary & deeply irritating.
                            sigpic

                            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

                              Sith? Give me an f***ing break. Its Jar Jar Binks - unwanted, unnecessary & deeply irritating.
                              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                              Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Amled View Post

                                With the majority of Finns (73-78%) now in favor of NATO membership, it’s a forgone conclusion that the Swedes will follow.
                                There’s already a majority in the population, and now in the Parliament when the second largest party; Sverige Demokraterne, came onboard.
                                Also it’s not just the Russian military maneuvers in the Baltic that has changed hearts and minds in Sweden.
                                The repeated airspace violations by Russian military aircraft; the latest just last month might also have something to do with it.
                                Then there’s also the little matter of Russia invading another sovereign nation!
                                If them why not us plays in too?
                                The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was to say it plainly: an agreement between two crooks, on how to divide the loot!
                                An agreement that Russia did quite well out of!
                                That it was broken?
                                Well what can you expect with mentalities like that, Hitler just beat Stalin to the punch!”
                                As for the Finland joining Nazi Germany in the siege of Leningrad?
                                You are neglecting to mention the fact that Russia had just a year before invaded Finland, when the Finn’s refused to cede them the territory Russia demanded. Finland fought a short bloody war, and lost.
                                Russia demanding territory from a neighboring sovereign state, and going to war to take it…hmmm sounds familiar!!!


                                You are new here, so you might not have met Jar Jar due to his suspension. To say that his logic is....inconsistent....is to dramatically understate the case. So is his issue with Nazis & their fellow travellers.

                                For context, Jar Jar is a shill for India's current governing party - the BJP. One of the many long term projects of the BJP has been to salvage/alter/elevate/radically change the image of Subhas Chandra Bose, one of the founding fathers of modern India and someone with the rare distinction of associating with Hitler AND Imperial Japan. He sought support from and raised soldiers for both - 3000 for the Nazis & over 40,000 for the Japanese. If this seems like an odd thing to do, it it worth understanding that the BJP was an outgrowth of a group called the RSS (which is stil lextremely influential). During the 20s & 30s senior RSS figures openly admired Hitler & Mussolini and tried to establish links to them. To be fair, the RSS appears to have backed the Allies during the war, but you can see that 'Nazis' and Fascists pop up quite a bit on the right of Indian politics in 20s, 30s & 40s.

                                So, while Jar Jar is scolding nations like Finland and Ukraine, he has no issue with Nazi-adjacent Indians. In fact, he supports them. This isn't about principle, it is about mindless oppositionalism. It is your time to waste, but I would suggest that every minute you spend arguing with him is a minute of your life utterly wasted. I learned so you wouldn't have to.
                                sigpic

                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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