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  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    _________

    I posted this here as it might signal Hungary's reaction to Finland and Sweden's NATO application.
    May be time to reconsider Hungary's & Turkey's membership.

    All they have done so far is hinder the actions of NATO, the EU & US. We have already dropped Turkey from the F-35 program.

    They both need to be reminded what they have gained from being in NATO.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

      May be time to reconsider Hungary's & Turkey's membership.

      All they have done so far is hinder the actions of NATO, the EU & US. We have already dropped Turkey from the F-35 program.

      They both need to be reminded what they have gained from being in NATO.
      I fairness to Turkey though they did close the Bosporus. And I can think of scenarios where a hostile Turkey could have chosen to interpret the Montreux Convention differently and claim Putin's 'special military operation' was not technically classified as a war and therefore Russian naval vessels from other fleets were permitted to enter the Black Sea. Plus I don't know if they are still selling Ukraine drones, at least via third party buyers if not directly. But that is still an option on the table and for once Ukraine would be getting systems they are familiar with.
      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Monash View Post

        I fairness to Turkey though they did close the Bosporus. And I can think of scenarios where a hostile Turkey could have chosen to interpret the Montreux Convention differently and claim Putin's 'special military operation' was not technically classified as a war and therefore Russian naval vessels from other fleets were permitted to enter the Black Sea. Plus I don't know if they are still selling Ukraine drones, at least via third party buyers if not directly. But that is still an option on the table and for once Ukraine would be getting systems they are familiar with.
        Yeah, I'm tracking all that and I totally get you point. But to have a NATO member cozy up to Russia and go against what NATO on several occasions...really looking at the S-400 debacle and some of the crap they pulled with their security personnel in DC sticks in my craw. I'd blame them also for their attacks in Kurdistan but that was all due to that asshole Trump...who also encouraged the attacks outside the embassy.

        But I get you. Time to find out what the cost will be and pay it. And TBH my issue is with the autocratic rule of Erdogan and not his military.
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

          Yeah, I'm tracking all that and I totally get you point. But to have a NATO member cozy up to Russia and go against what NATO on several occasions...really looking at the S-400 debacle and some of the crap they pulled with their security personnel in DC sticks in my craw. I'd blame them also for their attacks in Kurdistan but that was all due to that asshole Trump...who also encouraged the attacks outside the embassy.

          But I get you. Time to find out what the cost will be and pay it. And TBH my issue is with the autocratic rule of Erdogan and not his military.
          NATO looks at Turkey & sees incredibly valuable strategic position and a big military. That gives Turkey the proverbial mertic fuckton of rope to play with before any big, public attempt is made to reel it in. NATO has dealt with the invasion of Cyprus, conflict with Greece & all manner of questionable behaviour on its borders. Erdogan's attempt to cozy up to Putin is not the least of that, but not the worst either. Right now the best thing to do is led Erdogan sink himself.
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

          Comment


          • Finland and Sweden decides to join a defensive alliance, and Putin gets up on his high horse,
            and proclaims the unfairness of their actions, that these two (unaligned!!!) countries have nothing to fear from Russia.
            The curious thing is that they (Russia) can’t see sheer unmitigated irony in the situation.
            Here are they, on one hand declaring peaceful intents to two of the last unaligned countries in Europe,
            while on the other, laying waste to, and trying to conquer another unaligned European country!


            https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...es-2022-05-16/
            When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Amled View Post
              Finland and Sweden decides to join a defensive alliance, and Putin gets up on his high horse,
              and proclaims the unfairness of their actions, that these two (unaligned!!!) countries have nothing to fear from Russia.
              The curious thing is that they (Russia) can’t see sheer unmitigated irony in the situation.
              Here are they, on one hand declaring peaceful intents to two of the last unaligned countries in Europe,
              while on the other, laying waste to, and trying to conquer another unaligned European country!
              Churchill certainly wasn't mincing words...“I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.”
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • Putin: Finland, Sweden joining NATO ‘does not pose a direct threat to Russia’

                Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday that Finland and Sweden potentially joining NATO “does not pose a direct threat to Russia,” in a seeming reversal of his former condemnation of NATO expansion.

                “As far as expansion goes, including new members Finland and Sweden, Russia has no problems with these states — none. And so in this sense, there is no immediate threat to Russia from an expansion to include these countries,” Putin said, according to Reuters.


                Putin’s aversion to the Western alliance is one of the root causes of his invasion of Ukraine, which had expressed an openness to joining it in the future. The war, however, has in fact greatly increased the attractiveness of NATO to Sweden and Finland.

                Putin addressed NATO expansion at the Collective Security Treaty Organization summit, a meeting of a military alliance between six states formerly parts of the Soviet Union: Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

                He also said, however, that movement of troops or weapons into new NATO states would cause Russia to react.

                Putin’s comments come as Finland and Sweden both recently announced their intentions to officially apply for membership in NATO.

                Last week, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov offered a very different stance from Putin’s, saying that Finland joining NATO would “definitely” pose a threat to Russia.

                “As we have said many times before, NATO expansion does not make the world more stable and secure,” said Peskov.
                ___________

                My my my....how the turn tables...
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • As we have said many times before, NATO expansion does not make the world more stable and secure,” said Peskov.
                  Maybe not! but it does mean that will be two less unaligned nations that Putin will not be able to grab!
                  The table is getting quite bare here in Europe!
                  When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

                  Comment


                  • Turkey lays out demands as Finland, Sweden seek NATO membership

                    BERLIN (Reuters) -Turkey's foreign minister said on Sunday that Sweden and Finland must stop supporting terrorist groups in their countries, provide clear security guarantees and lift export bans on Turkey as they seek membership in NATO.

                    Speaking after a NATO foreign ministers meeting in Berlin, Mevlut Cavusoglu said he met his Swedish and Finnish counterparts and all were seeking to address Turkey's concerns.

                    He added that Turkey was not threatening anybody or seeking leverage but speaking out especially about Sweden's support for the PKK Kurdish militant group, deemed a terrorist group by Turkey, the European Union and the United States.

                    Finland confirmed on Sunday that it would apply for NATO membership and Sweden is expected to follow suit, in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. However Turkey's concerns may pose an obstacle, as any decision on NATO enlargement requires unanimous approval by all 30 member states.

                    "There absolutely needs to be security guarantees here. They need to stop supporting terrorist organizations," Cavusoglu told Turkish reporters in Berlin. He added that Swedish and Finnish bans on exporting of some of their defence sector goods to Turkey must end.

                    "Our stance is perfectly open and clear. This is not a threat, this is not a negotiation where we're trying to leverage our interests," he said.

                    "This is not populism either. This is clearly about two potential member states' support for terrorism, and our solid observations about it, this is what we shared."

                    Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan surprised NATO allies and the Nordic countries on Friday when he said Turkey could not support the enlargement plans given they were "home to many terrorist organisations", but his spokesperson told Reuters on Saturday that Turkey had not shut the door.

                    Cavusoglu repeated that Turkey, which joined NATO 70 years ago, does not oppose its open door policy.

                    He said the talks with Swedish and Finnish counterparts were good and that they made suggestions to alleviate Ankara's legitimate concerns, which Turkey would consider. He said he provided them proof of terrorists living in their states.

                    Cavusoglu again singled out Sweden as disrespecting Turkey's position and said PKK terrorist meetings took place in Stockholm over the weekend.
                    ________
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • This was always a negotiation. Just a question of what. He won't crap in the punchbowl and it won't take much to stop him.
                      sigpic

                      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                      Comment


                      • U.S. could ratify Finnish NATO membership before August, Senate Republican leader says

                        HELSINKI (Reuters) -The U.S. Congress will seek to ratify Finland's application to join the Western military alliance NATO before going on holiday in August, U.S. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said in Helsinki after meeting with Finland's President Sauli Niinisto.

                        Canada, NATO's other North American ally, also promised a quick ratification.

                        "Certainly we hope to achieve it before the August recess when Congress typically goes out of session," McConnell told reporters on Monday.

                        Niinisto confirmed on Sunday that Finland would apply for NATO membership, in a historic policy shift prompted by Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine. Sweden is also planning to join.

                        McConnell said there was broad bipartisan support among U.S. lawmakers for Finnish membership.

                        "With regard to the size of the vote, it will be very significant. Not unanimous, but very significant," he said.

                        McConnell stressed the Republican Party's commitment to continued U.S. participation in the military alliance.

                        "Absolutely, that's not the majority view in the Republican Party, certainly not the majority view among Senate Republicans or House Republicans," he said when asked about former U.S. President Donald Trump's view on pulling his country out of NATO.

                        Canadian Foreign Minister Melanie Joly said on Monday that Canada was also in favor of a rapid NATO accession of Finland and Sweden.

                        "Our goal is to be amongst the first countries to be able to ratify the accession of Sweden and Finland," Joly told reporters as she arrived for a meeting with her EU counterparts in Brussels. She said it would only take days for Canada to ratify the accession.
                        ___________

                        “I would like you to do us a favor, though..."
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Switzerland considering closer ties to NATO.

                          Just re-read that & think about it for a moment.

                          https://www.voanews.com/a/neutral-sw...-/6574071.html
                          sigpic

                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                            Switzerland considering closer ties to NATO.

                            Just re-read that & think about it for a moment.

                            https://www.voanews.com/a/neutral-sw...-/6574071.html
                            Holy. Shit.
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              Switzerland considering closer ties to NATO.

                              Just re-read that & think about it for a moment.

                              https://www.voanews.com/a/neutral-sw...-/6574071.html
                              "Vladimir Khokhlov, spokesman for the Russian embassy in Bern, said such measures would amount to a radical change of policy for Switzerland. Moscow would "not be able to ignore" an eventual renunciation of neutrality, which would have consequences, Khokhlov said. He did not provide further details."

                              Some threats never change...

                              Comment


                              • Ireland, I want Ireland in the 'club'. That will put the wind up Putin's skirt.
                                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                                Comment

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