NATO membership for Sweden and Finland

[TopHatter]

I really…really hope your right.
You’re supposition would be a bit more reassuring, if they were based on the actions of a sane and reasonable person.
I think it would be fair to say that Putin; since he launched his War has been neither one nor the other![/SIZE]

Oh I'll be the first (or second) to expect that Putin will try something to gum up the works during the interim application period, how ever far-fetched or harebrained it is.
Suddenly sharing an 800 mile border with a member of NATO will infuriate him worse than the Baltics, I would imagine.

It'll be a shock if he doesn't try something, even just a scathing threat. Although even he might realize that he's playing with fire if he goes even further than threats....

But the idea that NATO will allow him to interfere, in any way, but especially on the basis of a technicality, with the process is a virtual impossibility.

Furthermore, the idea that NATO will sit on its hands if Putin manages to put together a military strike, overt or covert, against Finland or Sweden is equally unlikely, especially now that pen is being put to paper to ensure direct military aid in such an event.

NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, should they apply for it, is almost an accomplished fact at this point...thanks solely to just one man.

[TopHatter]

Speaking of Hungary they really need to be booted out of the EU if possible. I'm sure they will bitch to high heavens given all the money they collect from the EU. Orban is clearly out of place with the rest.

Dunno about the EU but I suspect if Orban makes a stink about Finland and Sweden, he's going to find himself very unpopular with the rest of NATO.

And you're right, he's clearly out of place with the rest. He's just another authoritarian prick in the mold of Putin. I wonder if Hungary could get NATO membership today if they hadn't joined in 1999.

[TopHatter]

Finland's president has a message for Russia as it inches closer to joining NATO: 'You caused this'

Finland's president didn't leave anyone guessing on Wednesday as to who is responsible for pushing the northern European country closer to joining NATO: Russia.

If Finland joins NATO in the near future and Russia questions why, Sauli Niinisto during a press conference with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in Helsinki said his response would be, "You caused this — look at the mirror."

Russia has repeatedly warned Finland and Sweden against joining NATO while urging the military alliance to close its door to new members. He added by making these demands, Russia assumed Finland doesn't have its "own will."

Niinisto said this realization — along with Russia's February 24 invasion of Ukraine — changed the situation, because it suggested Russia is "ready to attack a neighboring country."

"For us, joining NATO would be not against anybody — we would like to maximize our security," Sauli said, arguing that increasing Finland's security isn't a zero-sum game and won't detract from anyone else's security.

The UK on Wednesday signed new security agreements with Finland — and neighboring Sweden — to strengthen the two Nordic countries' defenses against Russia. Under the deals, the UK, which is nuclear-armed, pledged to come to the defense of Finland and Sweden if they're attacked and request assistance.

Both Finland and Sweden — which have historically been militarily unaligned — appear set to join NATO in the near future as security concerns heighten amid Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

Speaking on the subject during a joint press conference with Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson in Stockholm last month, Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said, "Everything changed when Russia invaded Ukraine."

Polling conducted in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shown record levels of support for joining NATO among Swedes and Finns. On Tuesday, BBC News reported that the two Scandinavian countries could move to join the military alliance within days.
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[Bigfella]

Speaking of Hungary they really need to be booted out of the EU if possible. I'm sure they will bitch to high heavens given all the money they collect from the EU. Orban is clearly out of place with the rest.

To quote LBJ, right now it is better to have him inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. Hungary has taken millions of refugees across its border and is currently hosting 500,000. Plenty of other EU nations are doing WAY less. Orban would totally kick them out & close the border if the EU booted him out.

There will be a time to deal with Orban, and that will become very necessary, but unless he becomes significantly more obstructive this is not it. One crisis at a time.

[Albany Rifles]

Finland's in and Sweden likely to follow this weekend.

Russians are pissed. Oh no! Anyway...

Absolutley brain dead estimation on Putin's part.


Russia vows response as Finland seeks NATO membership without delay | Reuters

Russia vows response as Finland seeks NATO membership without delay


By Anne Kauranen
and Jonathan Landay



HELSINKI/KHARKIV, Ukraine, May 12 (Reuters) - Finland said on Thursday it would apply to join NATO "without delay", with Sweden expected to follow, as Russia's invasion of Ukraine looked set to bring about the very expansion of the Western military alliance that Vladimir Putin aimed to prevent.

The decision by the two Nordic countries to abandon the neutrality they maintained throughout the Cold War would be one of the biggest shifts in European security in decades. Finland's announcement angered the Kremlin, which called it a direct threat to Russia and threatened an unspecified response.

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It came even as Russia's war in Ukraine was suffering another big setback, with Ukrainian forces driving Russian troops out of the region around the second largest city Kharkiv, the fastest Ukrainian advance since forcing Russia to withdraw from the capital and northeast more than a month ago.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the Finns would be "warmly welcomed" and promised an accession process that would be "smooth and swift".

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Finland and Sweden are the two biggest EU countries yet to join NATO. Finland's 1,300-km (800-mile) border will more than double the length of the frontier between the U.S.-led alliance and Russia, putting NATO guards a few hours' drive from the northern outskirts of St Petersburg.

"Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay," President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin said in a joint statement. "We hope that the national steps still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days."

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Asked whether Finland's accession posed a direct threat to Russia, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: "Definitely. NATO expansion does not make our continent more stable and secure.

"This cannot fail to arouse our regret, and is a reason for corresponding symmetrical responses on our side," Peskov added, without elaborating. Russian officials have spoken in the past about potential measures including stationing nuclear-armed missiles on the Baltic Sea.

'LOOK AT THE MIRROR'


Asked on Wednesday if Finland would provoke Russia by joining NATO, Niinisto said: "My response would be that you caused this. Look at the mirror." read more

Five diplomats and officials told Reuters that NATO allies expect both countries to be granted membership quickly, paving the way for an increased troop presence in the Nordic region to defend them during a one-year ratification period. read more

Putin, Russia's president, cited NATO's potential expansion as one of the main reasons he launched a "special military operation" in Ukraine in February. Ukraine has long sought to join NATO, although it has lately offered at peace talks to accept some form of neutral status.

NATO describes itself as a defensive alliance, built around a treaty declaring that an attack on one member is an attack on all, effectively granting U.S. allies the protection of Washington's superpower might, including its nuclear arsenal.

Moscow regards that as a threat to its own security and influence in neighbouring countries. But Putin's decision to invade Ukraine has caused a shift in public opinion in the Nordic region, with political parties that had backed neutrality for generations now embracing the view that Russia is a menace.

Finland in particular has centuries of uneasy history in Russia's shadow. Ruled by the Russian empire from 1809-1917, it fought off Soviet invasions on the eve of World War Two, and accepted some Soviet influence as the price of avoiding taking sides in the Cold War. Since it and Sweden joined the EU in 1995, they have aligned more firmly with the West. read more

[Amled]

With roughly 10% of the country’s population of around 5 million being on call for National Service,
along with an impressive amount of military hardware.
This may be the reason for some Finns exclaim;
Finland doesn’t have an Army; Finland is an Army!!!!

[Amled]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...e9f24f6b3a390a

Didn’t see that one coming!
Thought if anyone would throw a spanner in the works it would be Orban of Hungary…but Erdogan?
One of the news commentators on Danish TV; who has extensive knowledge of Mid –East politics,
did say to take it with a grain of salt. That it may be mainly a stance taken for some domestic political gains.

[tbm3fan]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...e9f24f6b3a390a

Didn’t see that one coming!
Thought if anyone would throw a spanner in the works it would be Orban of Hungary…but Erdogan?
One of the news commentators on Danish TV; who has extensive knowledge of Mid –East politics,
did say to take it with a grain of salt. That it may be mainly a stance taken for some domestic political gains.

In some ways I'd call Erdogan a good old double agent playing both sides.

[TopHatter]

Didn’t see that one coming!

Yeah that was a bit out of left field. Orban and Erdogan can both go fuck themselves

[Amled]

Yeah that was a bit out of left field. Orban and Erdogan can both go fuck themselves

That it was from the left field is the point being made from both media and political sides.
The SOB has had months to bring up any qualms he’s had,
and he’s said nothing until right at the last moment!
The consensus right now is that he’s looking to make some kind ‘a deal.
But he’s sure pissed off a lot of movers and shakers.
As for your second point? Ditto on both of them!!!

[Bigfella]

My bet is that Erdogan is after something from the US & EU. His economy is in freefall & he is in danger of losing power even with all the anti-democratic changes he has made to entrench himself. I wouldn't be surprised if this all magically went away after a few financial promises.

[TopHatter]

My bet is that Erdogan is after something from the US & EU. His economy is in freefall & he is in danger of losing power even with all the anti-democratic changes he has made to entrench himself. I wouldn't be surprised if this all magically went away after a few financial promises.

Oh yeah, big time. What an opportunistic prick. I have a feeling quite a few people are going to make a note of this for future reference.

[Amled]

It’s really quite diabolic what Erdogan has managed!
He waited until both Sweden and Finland had climbed out on branch.
Then this supposedly future ally and friend proceeds to sawing the branch off!!!
A commentator is reported to have heard a ranking civil servants reaction to Erdogan’s comments:
“Great, just frigging Great!!! This at a time where we need to project unity in face of Putin’s aggression!!!”
It’s doesn’t take much imagination to imagine Putin behind closed doors cackling like a demented hen!
First Orban now Erdogan…
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclus...ys-2022-05-14/

[TopHatter]

It’s really quite diabolic what Erdogan has managed!
He waited until both Sweden and Finland had climbed out on branch.
Then this supposedly future ally and friend proceeds to sawing the branch off!!!

You can't expect anything else from authoritarian slime like this, they're all the same.

A commentator is reported to have heard a ranking civil servants reaction to Erdogan’s comments:
“Great, just frigging Great!!! This at a time where we need to project unity in face of Putin’s aggression!!!”

Well they love Putin so, again, it's hardly a surprise

[TopHatter]

Hungary's new president condemns Putin's 'aggression', plans trip to Warsaw

BUDAPEST (Reuters) - Hungary's President Katalin Novak at her inauguration ceremony on Saturday condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine and said her first trip would take her to Poland, in an apparent gesture to mend relations with Warsaw.

Hungary's rejection of sending weapons shipments to neighbouring Ukraine and its opposition to a planned European Union embargo on Russian oil imports has weighed on relations between Budapest and Warsaw, whose two nationalist governments have been long-time allies in the EU.

Novak, a former Fidesz party lawmaker and ally of Prime Minister Viktor Orban, was elected to the largely ceremonial post of president in March, shortly before Orban won another landslide victory in elections on April 3.

Hungary's first woman president, Novak has served as deputy chair of Fidesz and was family affairs minister in Orban's previous government.

"On Tuesday, 17 May, I am travelling to Warsaw to meet the President of the Polish people. Mr. President, dear Andrzej (Duda), I thank you for the opportunity to talk as befits friends!," Novak said in her inauguration speech.

"We condemn Putin's aggression, the armed invasion of a sovereign state. We say eternally no to every effort aiming at the restoration of the Soviet Union," she added.

She said the war in Ukraine was also "fought against us peace -loving Hungarians", adding that Hungary demanded that war crimes be investigated and punished.

Orban has also condemned Russia's attack on Ukraine but has avoided personal criticism of President Vladimir Putin and has been strongly opposed to any sanctions on Russian energy.

Dependence on Russian oil in Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia poses the biggest obstacle to an embargo deal that the European Commission, the EU executive, proposed in early May in response to Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine.
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I posted this here as it might signal Hungary's reaction to Finland and Sweden's NATO application.