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Terror Attacks in Paris : 17 killed, Terrorists dead

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  • #76
    It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's about her always pushing the same message.

    Kinda like how everyone could say in advance that the first politician to pipe up after such an attack was Marine Le Pen. And what she was gonna say. Broadly.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by tantalus View Post
      Interesting, What's the run down on Tehran as a leadership of Shia? I'll follow a link if you want just toss one my way...
      I guess technically you could say Qom, but most people would not recognize that name so I used Tehran. Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is first among equals (patriarch) among the other Grand Ayatollahs (cardinals) aka Maraji who are superior to regular Ayatollahs (Bishops) who are superior to Hujjatu l-Islām wa l-Muslimīn and Hujjatu l-Islām (ordained pastors) among Twelver Shia Islam. (closest example in Christendom, not an exact parallel). Unlike Sunni Islam where anyone can declare themselves an Iman (lay pastor), progression up the ranks of Shia Clerical ranks must be confirmed by others holding superior rank and come with required qualifications for example having attended Hawza (Religious and Law University conducted by Grand Ayatollahs to train Shia clerics). To Be accepted as a Grand Ayatollah also requires an extensive publication called a Resalah.

      On a side note, Khamenei might not in fact be a legit Grand Ayatollah. Including him there are 64 living Grand Ayatollahs mostly in Qom and Najaf. Their word is law for everyone of lesser rank.

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      • #78
        the rules of war contained in the Quran are of a higher caliber than the rules developed by mere mortals.
        Listen to tahir's talk. he finds no contradicitons with the geneva convention and the rules of islamic war. In fact the geneva convention is the collected wisdom over centuries of conflict.

        In Malik’s analysis of Quranic strategy, the human soul—and not any physical battlefield—is the center of conflict. The key to victory, taught by Allah through the military campaigns of the Prophet Muhammad, is to strike at the soul of your enemy. And the best way to strike at your enemy’s soul is through terror. Terror, Malik writes, is “the point where the means and the end meet.” Terror, he adds, “is not a means of imposing decision upon the enemy; it is the decision we wish to impose.”
        He has to come up with a self serving interpretation after 1971 over how to defend pakistan.

        Terrorism is the weapon of the powerless.

        Moreover, despite what the Quran may teach, not all sins can be considered equal. The West must insist that Muslims, particularly members of the Muslim diaspora, answer this question: What is more offensive to a believer—the murder, torture, enslavement and acts of war and terrorism being committed today in the name of Muhammad, or the production of drawings and films and books designed to mock the extremists and their vision of what Muhammad represents?
        See aforementioned video.

        These perps are working off a flawed premise.

        Originally posted by drhuy View Post
        man, i wanna kiss that this woman right now. shes absolutely right
        You are an easy mark :)
        Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Jan 15,, 01:23.

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        • #79
          Frankly speaking,I'm a bit tired of all the BS about the so called moderates and subsequent calls for more appeasement.Let the dice be thrown.It will come to bloodshed sooner or later.So,if journos and other lefty supporters of multiculti are going to get killed for their sins,that's it.They supported their whole lives the causes that led to this situation.They won't change their minds.They won't fight and they're unprepared for a fight.The only things they're good is spouting the same nonsense they spouted for decades.In the old days,useless mouths like them were expelled from cities under siege.So let them fend for themselves,or let the besiegers kill them.They are unimportant.
          LMAO. Dreaming of a little ethnic cleansing of the unarmed and killing left wingers thrown in for good measure. To be expected from a wanna-be fascist from a pathetically weak nation which is zero for life at war. "Let's go kill some unarmed Muslims!"

          We need to put out an ad for a Belgian fascist to join WAB.

          =========

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/...spects-spotted

          The last of the 12 victims slain in the terror attack on the French newspaper Charlie Hebdo was a police officer - the son of immigrants from mainly Muslim North Africa - who was shot dead on the sidewalk by one of the assailants as they started their getaway.

          Police officials identified him as Ahmed Merabet.

          As details about his death became known, a campaign of solidarity quickly caught fire on social media Thursday, using the phrase "Je Suis Ahmed" - I Am Ahmed.

          That echoed the campaign of support for the satirical newspaper that spread widely after the attack, using the slogan "Je Suis Charlie".
          Last edited by troung; 09 Jan 15,, 02:41.
          To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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          • #80
            Police has released the names of all three officers killed in the two incidents that day:

            Ahmed Merabet, 42 (the officer shot on the pavement)
            Franck Brinsolaro (the police guard of "Charb")
            Clarissa Jean-Philippe, 27 (the female officer shot in Montrouge)

            Eight employees of Charlie Hebdo were killed:

            Stephane Charbonnier, 47 ("Charb")
            Jean Cabut, 76 ("Cabu")
            Bernhard Verlhac, 57 ("Tignous")
            Georges Wolinski, 81
            Philippe Honore, 73
            Bernhard Maris
            Elsa Cayat
            Mustapha Ourrad

            As well as:

            Michel Renaud (visiting the premises at the time)
            Frederic Boisseau, 42 (Sodexo facility manager for the building)


            Merabet was a French national of Tunisian descent, Ourrad an Algerian national. Jean-Philippe was from Martinique.
            Last edited by kato; 09 Jan 15,, 02:44.

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            • #81
              Agreed.

              BBC News - Viewpoint: The roots of the battle for free speech

              Historian Tom Holland was one of those who tweeted Charlie Hebdo's cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad in the wake of the deadly attack on the magazine's office. Here he explains the ramifications of defending free speech.

              Religions are not alone in having their martyrs. On 1 July, 1766, in Abbeville in northern France, a young nobleman named Lefebvre de la Barre was found guilty of blasphemy. The charges against him were numerous - that he had defecated on a crucifix, spat on religious images, and refused to remove his hat as a Church procession went past.

              These crimes, together with the vandalising of a wooden cross on the main bridge of Abbeville, were sufficient to see him sentenced to death. Once La Barre's tongue had been cut out and his head chopped off, his mortal remains were burned by the public executioner, and dumped into the river Somme. Mingled among the ashes were those of a book that had been found in La Barre's study, and consigned to the flames alongside his corpse - the Philosophical Dictionary of the notorious philosopher, Voltaire.

              Voltaire himself, informed of his reader's fate, was appalled. "Superstition," he declared from his refuge in Switzerland, "sets the whole world in flames."

              Two-and-a-half centuries on, and it is the notion that someone might be put to death for criticising a religious dogma that is likely to strike a majority of people in the West as the blasphemy. The values of free speech and toleration for which Voltaire campaigned all his life have become enshrined as the very embodiment of what Europeans, as a rule, most prize about their own civilisation.

              Voltaire, with his mocking smile, still serves as their patron saint. In France, where secular ideals are particularly treasured, he is regularly invoked by those who feel the legacy of the Enlightenment to be under threat.

              When Philippe Val, the editor of Charlie Hebdo, published a book in 2008 defending the right of cartoonists to mock religious taboos, the title was telling. Reviens, Voltaire, Ils Sont Devenus Fous, he called it - Come Back, Voltaire, They Have Gone Insane. It was not Christians, though, whom Val was principally calling mad.

              Between the 18th Century and the 21st, the religious complexion of France had radically altered. Not only had the power of the Catholic Church gone into precipitous retreat, but some six million immigrants belonging to a very different faith had arrived in the country.

              Islam, unlike Catholicism, had inherited from the Jews a profound disapproval of figurative art. It also commemorated Muhammad - the prophet believed by his followers to have received God's ultimate revelation, the Koran - as the very model of human behaviour. Insults to him were traditionally held by Muslim jurists to be equivalent to disbelief - and disbelief was a crime that merited Hell.

              Not that there was anything within the Koran itself that necessarily mandated it as a capital offence. "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills, let him believe; and whoever wills, let him disbelieve." Nevertheless, a story preserved in the oldest surviving biography of Muhammad implied a rather more punitive take. So punitive, indeed, that some Muslim scholars - who are generally most reluctant to countenance the possibility that the earliest biography of their prophet might be unreliable - have gone so far as to question its veracity.

              The story relates the fate of Asma bint Marwan, a poet from the Prophet's home town of Mecca. After she had mocked Muhammad in her verses, he cried out, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" - and sure enough, that very night, she was killed by one of his followers in her own bed. The assassin, reporting back on what he had done, was thanked personally by the Prophet. "You have helped both God and His messenger!"

              "Ecrasez l'infâme," Voltaire famously urged his admirers: "Crush what is infamous". Islam, too, makes the same demand. The point of difference, of course, is over how "l'infâme" is to be defined. To the cartoonists of Charlie Hebdo, who in 2011 published an edition with a swivel-eyed Muhammad on the cover, just as earlier they had portrayed Jesus as a contestant on I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, and Pope Benedict holding aloft a condom at Mass, it is the pretensions of authority wherever they may be found - in politics quite as much as in religion.

              To the gunmen who yesterday launched their murderous attack on the Charlie Hebdo office, it is the mockery of a prophet whom they feel should exist beyond even a hint of criticism. Between these two positions, when they are prosecuted with equal passion and conviction on both sides, there cannot possibly be any accommodation.

              It was the Salman Rushdie affair that served as the first symptom of this. Since then, like a dull toothache given to periodic flare-ups, the problem has never gone away. I myself had first-hand experience of just how intractable it can be in 2012, with a film I made for Channel 4. Islam: The Untold Story explored the gathering consensus among historians that much of what Muslims have traditionally believed about the life of Muhammad is unlikely to be strict historical fact - and it provoked a firestorm of death threats.

              Unlike Charlie Hebdo, I had not set out to give offence. I am no satirist, and I do not usually enjoy hurting people's feelings. Nevertheless, I too feel that some rights are worthy of being defended - and among them is the freedom of historians to question the origin myths of religions. That was why, when I heard the news from Paris yesterday, I chose to do something I would never otherwise have done, and tweet a Charlie Hebdo cartoon of Muhammad.

              The BBC, by contrast, has decided not to reproduce the cartoon for this article. Many other media organisations - though not all - have done the same. I refuse to be bound by a de facto blasphemy taboo.

              While under normal circumstances I am perfectly happy not to mock beliefs that other people hold dear, these are far from normal circumstances. As I tweeted yesterday, the right to draw Muhammad without being shot is quite as precious to many of us in the West as Islam presumably is to the Charlie Hebdo killers.

              We too have our values - and if we are not willing to stand up for them, then they risk being lost to us. When it comes to defining l'infâme, I for one have no doubt whose side I am on.

              Tom Holland is a writer, broadcaster and historian. His latest book, In The Shadow of the Sword, is an account of the history of Islam. He wrote and presented the documentary Islam: The Untold Story.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by kato View Post
                It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's about her always pushing the same message.

                Kinda like how everyone could say in advance that the first politician to pipe up after such an attack was Marine Le Pen. And what she was gonna say. Broadly.
                its about what she said is correct or not.

                Comment


                • #83
                  In breaking news French police are currently in pursuit of the suspects. There has been gunfire & there may be at least one hostage involved.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #84
                    i dont know if it is a re-post.

                    sorry if it is.

                    #JeSuisAhmed Reveals the Hero of the Paris Shooting Everyone Needs to Know

                    The recognition of their ultimate sacrifice in the name of free speech and open discourse is beautiful, but it's equally important to remember that the lives of the victims extended beyond the confines of the magazine. Two of those killed, 42-year-old Ahmed Merabet and 49-year-old Franck Brinsolaro, were police officers — the very people tasked with protecting Charlie Hebdo's staff. Merabet's death was captured on film during a French television broadcast and shared quickly across social media. Two masked gunmen can be seen approaching him, ignoring his pleas to spare his life.

                    Who was he? As information about the victims began to filter out, the world learned that Merabet worked at a police station in Paris' 11th Arrondissement, near the location of Charlie Hebdo's offices. Reports also emerged that Merabet was himself Muslim.

                    Merabet, then, died at the hands of one of his own — albeit its fanatical and dangerous minority. It is especially and darkly ironic given that the gunmen allegedly shouted: "We have avenged the prophet Muhammad." The name "Ahmed" shares linguistic roots with "Muhammad," and the prophet was sometimes referred to as Ahmed.

                    He gave his life to protect Charlie Hebdo's right to ridicule his religion, a powerful fact that has now become a trending hashtag on Twitter
                    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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                    • #85
                      I need some more help with conspiracy theorists.

                      Right now there are folk running around claiming that this is all some sort of fake up because footage of the gunmen executing Ahmed Merabet doesn't show enough 'mess' and apparently some of the bullets miss.

                      I need something from folks here who actually know a bit about these things or perhaps even have experience. I'm not going to ask anyone to watch the footage if they don't wish to (I don't personally), but any assistance is greatly appreciated.



                      P.S. If you do chip in, can you just give some idea of your 'qualifications' so to speak. Adds authority.
                      sigpic

                      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                      • #86
                        Bigfella

                        others tell that this has something to do with the French intervention of Mali
                        Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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                        • #87
                          2nd Hostage incident in Paris now being reported by fox news as "breaking" news. No details as of yet beyond there being 5 hostages. Quick search of other news outlets doesn't yet give any news, but the French did state earlier that they suspected there was more to come.

                          1st update: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01...be-related-to/

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                          • #88
                            Another report: Paris Terror Attack: 2nd Hostage Situation Reported in France - ABC News

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Big K View Post
                              Bigfella

                              others tell that this has something to do with the French intervention of Mali
                              Seems an odd target in that case Big K.
                              sigpic

                              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                                Seems an odd target in that case Big K.
                                not if you want to drag a whole world into a chaos that you created...

                                btw it is sad that seemingly nobody cares about 2k(according reports) people killed in Nigeria by boko haram barbarians.
                                Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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