EEU = Soviet Lite

[Versus]

Both sides have been fairly consistent in observing the treaty. The ISKANDER is classified as a conventional SRBM with a range of 500 kms. Just borderline enough not to be considered a violation of the INF Treaty.

As far as Arms Control Treaties singatories are concerned, all sides (with the exception of China) have been consistent in reducing nuclear weapons.

There are disagreements but none that fundamentally puts the Treaties at risk.

It must be stated that it is lawyers who wrote these treaties and they have enough loop holes to make things very nasty. An ICBM can be used as an IRBM.

But the point about distance is really moot. All nuclear powers do not have a launch-on-warning. There have been too many false alarms to even accept that. However, all nuclear powers do have a launch-on-impact policy. If there was going to be a nuclear attack by either side, both side would wait until there is confirmation of a nuclear explosion before launching their missiles.

For Russia, loosing Ukraine would mean loosing strategic depth and that is something that they will not allow to happen. With or without nukes. And Black sea as well.

[Versus]

Hmmm... So, it's USA or the West's fault that they used our pill on us and we were blond and took it? What were we (Yugoslavia) doing in Africa arming the good guys to liberate from the oppression? Everyone has a right for self-determination, bad bad westerners we help you... Well, karma is a bitch and we pissed the guys with long term memory.

Anyway, your guys took the major bashing once your politicos placed you in the bad guys shoes.

Yep, it's all someone else's fault nut ours.

No Doc, the formation of the Western attitude towards us, has nothing to do with our actions or our policies.

[Doktor]

No Doc, the formation of the Western attitude towards us, has nothing to do with our actions or our policies.

I am against that kind of thinking. The World changes and so does interests. We refused to join the EU in the 70's, decided to stay neutral in the '50s, but we did arn, train and loaned westrrn cash to their colonies and now we wonder.

[Versus]

I am against that kind of thinking. The World changes and so does interests. We refused to join the EU in the 70's, decided to stay neutral in the '50s, but we did arn, train and loaned westrrn cash to their colonies and now we wonder.

Doc, that narrative was created in 19th century. But it has close relation to the colonial mindset, you got that one right.

[Versus]

I mean,S2 demonstrated it clearly. He concluded that since I am a Serb, which means that I am a Slav and that I am Orthodox, I must wear pajamas with little Putin heads and have Putin action figures on my shelves. None of those are true, I have "Hasegava" Sepecat Jaguar T Mk.2 in 1:72 scale, in a box since it hasn't been assembled and my pajamas have stripes. Oh my, oh my...

But that is the mindset among US, Uk and Eu political, intellectual and media elite, that we are genetically "little Russians". Which makes us their enemies by default, no matter what we do or do not.

I don't mind, though although it makes conversation difficult.

[Versus]

OK, since this is about EUU which is not operational yet, lets see what Euro-atlantic integration has brought to my parts of the woods. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpXbA6yZY-8

Ever since early 2000, when "the great experiment", performed by Colonel Robert Helvey, an ex-Green Beret from Burma and as far as my memory goes was with the SOG or LARP , deeply connected with CIA/DIA operations, teamed up with his buddy Peter Ackerman, from Rockport Capital Inc and formed CANVAS, so called non profit organization that gave birth to "Otpor" organization, the one which will play crucial role in bringing Milosevic down, things are constantly changing. For the worse.

Economy suffered complete collapse, security issues have worsen and now we have ISIL head cutters on our doorsteps. Our enemies are celebrating our defeat and are quite eager to finish the job with us The prospect of creating Great Albania which will serve as a door for ISIL is expected to take its final form in the next five years. With it the border region that connects Bosnia and Kosovo, called Sanjak is slowly heating up, with ever increasing number of ISIL fighters going to the caliphate to do fighting. In the same time, Serbia became a transit route for the asylum seeking people from the Middle East and Africa. On the other side, the Eu countries are using re-admission laws to ship back immigrants back to Serbia, people whom left Serbia during the 90es. However, problem is that they are returning back with their families so their number is at least three times bigger. This is particularly true for the Roma population which are being deported to Serbia although they are not Serbian citizens.

Combined with the high unemployment, because it is not profitable to produce anything domestically due to globalization, these people are turning to crime activities. This than, propagates to a racial tensions, adding up to the mess complexity. Number of suicides are rising, as well as domestic violence with frequent child abuse cases. On the medical side, Serbia holds the record in usage of anti-depressant usage and has highest number of identified cancer cases in Europe. Our diet consists out of imported products from Eu, third or fourth class or products with expired dates. This is particularly true for the meat products, whom get frozen and than shipped here, after they are declared unfit to meet Eu standards.

Also there is a inner migration, from rural to urban places, our villages are getting empty and the cities are getting overcrowded. One out of five, graduates wants to leave Serbia, never to return. Annually our population is decreasing by 30.000.

For me, the hardest part is the mindset change, people which are born in 1985 and later, are completely new type of people with totally different cognitive and perception processes. I find it easier to communicate with the ones that are born in 1950 than with the ones born in 1990. Which was the reason why I left my job, last week. My friend, whom is a pilot said that he has the same problem but we always joke about that, calling the new ones, Serb Mk.2 and Mk.3.

At least, we didn't lost a sense of humor, despite all this. But the doubt is slowly rising. Was Milosevic that bad?

[Doktor]

OK, since this is about EUU which is not operational yet, lets see what Euro-atlantic integration has brought to my parts of the woods. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpXbA6yZY-8

Ever since early 2000, when "the great experiment", performed by Colonel Robert Helvey, an ex-Green Beret from Burma and as far as my memory goes was with the SOG or LARP , deeply connected with CIA/DIA operations, teamed up with his buddy Peter Ackerman, from Rockport Capital Inc and formed CANVAS, so called non profit organization that gave birth to "Otpor" organization, the one which will play crucial role in bringing Milosevic down, things are constantly changing. For the worse.

Let's say it's all the bad ol' US of A who sponsors those revolutions, at least they have interest and don't send little green man in to fulfill it.

Economy suffered complete collapse, security issues have worsen and now we have ISIL head cutters on our doorsteps. Our enemies are celebrating our defeat and are quite eager to finish the job with us The prospect of creating Great Albania which will serve as a door for ISIL is expected to take its final form in the next five years. With it the border region that connects Bosnia and Kosovo, called Sanjak is slowly heating up, with ever increasing number of ISIL fighters going to the caliphate to do fighting. In the same time, Serbia became a transit route for the asylum seeking people from the Middle East and Africa. On the other side, the Eu countries are using re-admission laws to ship back immigrants back to Serbia, people whom left Serbia during the 90es. However, problem is that they are returning back with their families so their number is at least three times bigger. This is particularly true for the Roma population which are being deported to Serbia although they are not Serbian citizens.

They are not? Where did they come from, India?

Combined with the high unemployment, because it is not profitable to produce anything domestically due to globalization, these people are turning to crime activities. This than, propagates to a racial tensions, adding up to the mess complexity. Number of suicides are rising, as well as domestic violence with frequent child abuse cases. On the medical side, Serbia holds the record in usage of anti-depressant usage and has highest number of identified cancer cases in Europe. Our diet consists out of imported products from Eu, third or fourth class or products with expired dates. This is particularly true for the meat products, whom get frozen and than shipped here, after they are declared unfit to meet Eu standards.

Do you have your own inspectors or not? Guess what, the number of unemployed, cancer illnesses, suicides, usage of all sorts of pills and drugs is on the rise everywhere. So, no, we are not special.

Also there is a inner migration, from rural to urban places, our villages are getting empty and the cities are getting overcrowded. One out of five, graduates wants to leave Serbia, never to return. Annually our population is decreasing by 30.000.

30.000 out of 8.000.000? Where do they go? Moscow, right? Guess what, we lost 25% of the population in less then 25 years.

For me, the hardest part is the mindset change, people which are born in 1985 and later, are completely new type of people with totally different cognitive and perception processes. I find it easier to communicate with the ones that are born in 1950 than with the ones born in 1990. Which was the reason why I left my job, last week. My friend, whom is a pilot said that he has the same problem but we always joke about that, calling the new ones, Serb Mk.2 and Mk.3.

Imagine if you will a world where people still think and act like those in 1600s. It's called progress. Not always good, especially for traditionalists.

At least, we didn't lost a sense of humor, despite all this. But the doubt is slowly rising. Was Milosevic that bad?

Yes, he was that bad. You are paying his bills now. On top of Tito's.

[Versus]

Let's say it's all the bad ol' US of A who sponsors those revolutions, at least they have interest and don't send little green man in to fulfill it.


They are not? Where did they come from, India?


Do you have your own inspectors or not? Guess what, the number of unemployed, cancer illnesses, suicides, usage of all sorts of pills and drugs is on the rise everywhere. So, no, we are not special.


30.000 out of 8.000.000? Where do they go? Moscow, right? Guess what, we lost 25% of the population in less then 25 years.


Imagine if you will a world where people still think and act like those in 1600s. It's called progress. Not always good, especially for traditionalists.


Yes, he was that bad. You are paying his bills now. On top of Tito's.

I am not done yet, that was western part of the equation, now it is time for the eastern one. This has nothing to do with the progress, its a heist under a cloak of progress, very similar to the plot in Die Hard.

[Versus]

Russian influence in Serbia is mostly attached to, now abandoned, "Southern Stream" project and trough acquisition of football clubs. Standard presence within military and church goes without saying, but that is somewhat logical, since our military equipment is mostly of Russian origin and our church has close ties with Russian church. However it has also close ties with Anglican Church as well. Presence in media is insignificant, incoherent and counter productive.
But the most devastating characteristic of Russian influence is keeping the hope of deliverance from the advancing aggressive mercantile-utilitarianism alive. That false hope, prevents any attempt to organize and manage resources in a meaningful way in order to counter the threat. Waiting for a savior, the messianic narrative of the Putin persona and Putin's Russia, is nothing more than a expression of paralyzing fear, when faced with impending doom. Like a lambs in a row for a slaughter, this hope keeps the line steady for a grand finale.
Forms of this narrative are surreal and equally bizarre, they are mixture of religious narrative combined with new age pseudo realities and explanations. In that way it is possible to combine Bible, space aliens, secret Tesla inventions with the anti-globalism and anti Western utilitarianism with the strong anti-science note in it. Everything is magical and mysterious, mixed up in amalgam of Twin Peaks,X-files and South Park.

Truly they are the most tragic kind here.

[Versus]

So, what are the benefits of the Eu and EUU?

For us, since we will never be accepted to the Eu, this question is purely hypothetical. Equally us joining EUU is equally surreal. We are in a void, between two worlds, that are on a collision course with each other. Choosing sides won't save us just as staying still won't. We need to move out of their way if we want to survive.

[Officer of Engineers]

For my education, Versus, what is different between your style of thinking and the Chinese?

[Versus]

For my education, Versus, what is different between your style of thinking and the Chinese?

My guess, is that we were the part of the game for far too long, we know all the tricks that both West and East can pull, cause we experienced them first hand. That is why I think that it would be wise for us to sit this one out. There is a moment in the morgue thread, 15th of June 1862 that is interesting. It could explain a lot about my attitude. Working on that case study is somewhat similar to a historical CSI, gathering bits and pieces to get to truth. One thing is certain for sure, the official narrative is a lie.

[Versus]

Unfortunately, OE I think that the open war between US and Russia is year or two away.No, nothing really changes in the world and that progressive-positivist mantra, post-history, post-religious is nothing more than a wet dream of some rich kids from the ivy league universities, whom never had any contact with the real world, anyway. In essence, they are spoiled brats with money and influence, that they are using to preserve their bubble and they will do everything for the things to remain the same, with them on the top, of course.

I mean, why would a grandson of some British Lord, lets call him Lord Dingleberry think any differently than his grand grand dad whom lost a leg in Crimea War, about Russia,when his entire wealth and the position in society, absolutely depends on Russian containment from the sea ports? He might not have a fleet of merchant ships that are making him rich now days, but tradition of hate towards Russia runs strong trough his family, so strong that it became a definition. So why expect from him to have different prejudices and attitudes than his grand grand dad from Crimea war? Its a tradition, heritage.

But the thing I've discovered in our case, was that war begins a long before guns start firing, it begins with the culture. Steel comes at the end.

[Versus]

In a way, Russia has already lost this war, because its culture is strongly centralist and un popular. When people think of the West, they are thinking about US, they are thinking about the whole range of things, like movies, computer games, technology that makes their everyday life easier, computers, cars, coca cola and things like that. When they think of Russia, only thing that comes in mind are Sukhoi and Mig or deep and heavy books.Hardly something that has a usefulness in every day life. I mean, even if you could afford Su-37 there is a good chance that Canada will not let you have it. At the end, what would you do with it? On the other hand, you could buy I7 Processor and Nvidia or Ati video card and have fun, or X-box or go to the movies. That is why most of the people on this planet look at the West as something positive and good.

But there are few, whom experienced different kind of behavior.

[Versus]

I remember once, when I was a kid, watching Russian cartoon. It was very well animated but it was so slow when compared to American one. But the reason why it was slow was that it was non violent. American cartoons are funny, action packed and...well, violent.

Now, when I think of it, it shows that Russians represented different cultural model, trough cartoons than Americans. In their vision, world was an nonviolent place, it wasn't a constant struggle. In the American vision of the world, world is a wilderness, violent in its nature. Now when I think of it, I think that this vision of world and life in it, reflects Darwinism.