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  • #31
    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
    Did you not read what I wrote? I said the Church is a recognized state religion and therefore an organ of the State. Any protest against the Church is a protest against the State. It would be different if it was a private Church but in this case, it is not. And the Church had been very vocal and intrusive in the personal matters of people's lives and the State has either encouraged, complicit in, or looked the other way as a way of expressing support for Church activities and policies.
    Explain that to all the Eastern orthodox Russians, who this group managed to offend by their actions, not me.

    And guess what. He was freed only after 40 days in jail. See Wiki source: Akbaruddin Owaisi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Compare that to members of Pussy Riot who have been imprisoned for several years in brutal conditions.
    Freed on bail, he is still facing charges. That said, my point was about the limitations on free speech (and in Pussy Riot's case, it was more than just "speech"), not a comparison of Indian and Russian judicial systems. Though, they are both pathetic systems in their own different ways.


    So you say... I say your perception is flawed and you are not the final authority on such matters. Is that how you want to continue the debate? I can point out a lot of arrests for insult against the minorities on matters or comments that does not rise to religion insult but only criticism of the practices or double dealing of such minorities. But then of course, you will say my perception is flawed... yeah a good way to rebut by telling other people that their perceptions are flawed.
    And I can similarly show you where the Hindu far right, namely Bal Thackeray, has called on the Muslims and Christians to be wiped out of India, and he faced no charges for such. Two girls in Mumbai questioned on facebook why the city had to shut down for his funeral, and they were arrested for hurting Hindu sentiments.

    India is one country where every community claims to be unfairly treated compared to the others, and I guess you're no exception.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Explain that to all the Eastern orthodox Russians, who this group managed to offend by their actions, not me.
      They are offended by anyone not of their religion. See what they did to ISKCON members.


      Freed on bail, he is still facing charges. That said, my point was about the limitations on free speech (and in Pussy Riot's case, it was more than just "speech"), not a comparison of Indian and Russian judicial systems. Though, they are both pathetic systems in their own different ways.
      My point is that the Russian system is quite brutal in the extreme sense and they are doing it out of malice.


      India is one country where every community claims to be unfairly treated compared to the others, and I guess you're no exception.
      I am sure you are no different, eh? Especially when it comes to the treatment of Sikhs by the government.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
        They are offended by anyone not of their religion. See what they did to ISKCON members.
        Fair enough.

        I am sure you are no different, eh? Especially when it comes to the treatment of Sikhs by the government.
        I'm blaming the government for being a corrupt, autocratic body actively subverting the judiciary. A far cry from blaming the government for 'favouring' other communities over Sikhs.
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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        • #34
          This thread isn't about India.

          In any case, trying to somehow justify stupid Russian laws by pointing out that there are similarly stupid laws in India does not make sense. What's next a debate on which country's prisons are worse?

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          • #35
            I hear the Turkish ones are not what they used to be.:whome:
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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            • #36
              According to her husband and family, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova was removed from a prison clinic in Mordovia on 20 October and put aboard a train headed east. She was last seen on 24 October by a fellow passenger as the train arrived in the city of Chelyabinsk in the Ural mountains. According to Russian law, the family of a prisoner must be informed of a location transfer within 10 days. This has not occurred.
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              • #37
                According to unofficial Russian sources, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova has arrived at a Siberian prison in Nizhny Ingash which is ~4,500 kilometers east of Moscow. The transfer is viewed as retaliation for Tolokonnikova's public exposé of conditions at the Women's Penal Colony in Mordovia.
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                • #38
                  After travelling by airplane to Krasnoyarsk and then driving another 200 miles to Nizhny Ingash in Siberian Russia, Petr Verzilov (husband of Nadezhda Tolokonnikova) was told by prison officials at the IK-50 women's prison that Tolokno was not there.
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                  • #39
                    Nadezhda Tolokonnikova has finally been located. She is at the Krasnoyarsk TB Hospital No 1 (authorities say she does not have TB). Russian authorities said that she was moved from the Women's Penal Colony in Mordovia because her life was threatened by a senior guard. Probably true. But it is also understood that her exposé of prison conditions in the colony highly embarrassed the Kremlin. Due to her public letters, prisoners in Mordovia say that they now sew for 8 hours a day rather than the 16 hours a day that was customary. Visitors to Krasnoyarsk can only speak with Nadya via a video link.
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                    • #40
                      Nadya Tolokonnikova and Maria Alekhina served nearly two years.
                      pussy-riot

                      (Photo: NATALIA KOLESNIKOVA, AFP/Getty Images)
                      Story Highlights

                      Nadya Tolokonnikova, 24, and Maria Alekhina, 25, will be freed early
                      They're members of the feminist punk band Pussy Riot
                      Their crime was "hooliganism"

                      SHARE 72384 CONNECT 2123 TWEET 34 COMMENTEMAILMORE

                      A previous version of this story incorrectly identified the band members' release date.

                      Pussy Riot members Nadya Tolokonnikova, 24, and Maria Alekhina, 25, will be freed from prison three months before their scheduled release, according to Reuters. The two women and fellow band member Yekaterina Samutsevich were arrested for performing Punk Prayer: Mother of God Drive Putin Away from Moscow's Christ the Saviour Cathedral on Feb. 21, 2012. Their crime: "hooliganism motivated by religious hatred or hostility."

                      While Samutsevich successfully appealed her sentence, the other two punk rockers remained, despite global cries for their release. Earlier this week, a new Russian amnesty law was passed. According to The Associated Press, prisoners "who haven't committed violent crimes, first-time offenders, minors and women with small children" are granted amnesty from their imprisonment. During their time, Alekhina went on a hunger strike and Tolokonnikova wrote an open letter, protesting the treatment of prisoners. Just days after that letter was posted, she disappeared for 21 days during a prison transfer, showing up in a Siberian prison hospital.

                      In a news conference, President Vladimir Putin expressed no regret for the Pussy Riot members. "I was not sorry that they ended up behind bars," he said. "I was sorry that they were engaged in such disgraceful behavior, which in my view was degrading to the dignity of women."
                      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by xinhui View Post
                        In a news conference, President Vladimir Putin expressed no regret for the Pussy Riot members. "I was not sorry that they ended up behind bars," he said. "I was sorry that they were engaged in such disgraceful behavior, which in my view was degrading to the dignity of women."
                        And Czar Putin says not a word about the degrading conditions in his gulag penal colonies for women.

                        Nor does the 'moral conscience' of Putin seem overly concerned about the tens of thousands of women in his power sphere that are trafficked abroad as sex slaves.
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                        • #42
                          Czar Putin is not known for his equal opportunity stand. In fact, I would put him and silvio berlusconi on the same boat, if you know what I mean.
                          “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                          • #43
                            After their release from prison, both Nadezhda Tolokonnikova and Maria Alyokhina say they plan to remain in Russia and advocate for human rights and prison reform. There had been rumors that Alyokhina may relocate to Western Europe or Tolokonnikova (Jewish) to Israel or Canada. Maria Alyokhina kept her comments to reporters brief as she exited the prison: "We didn't ask for any pardon. I would have sat here until the end of my sentence because I don't need mercy from Putin, but the authorities had their orders. I think this is an attempt to improve the image of the current government, a little, before the Sochi Olympics — particularly for the Western Europeans. But I don't consider this humane or merciful. This is a lie."

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                            • #44
                              A frank interview with the BBC

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