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  • John,

    Ok, Putin ain't no Reagan. But is he a Deng Xia Peng? A man willing and able to drag Russia forward and don't care if Russia bitches and whine?

    Comment


    • This is my cue. I met Deng in Beijing in 1979. I was part of an advance team for a US cabinet officer about to meet with him. As he arrived he came over to welcome me and my partner, or should I say he came over to flirt with her, a tall, good-looking gal from Wyoming (I think). All I can tell you about him is that he exuded charm and charisma.
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        John,

        Ok, Putin ain't no Reagan. But is he a Deng Xia Peng? A man willing and able to drag Russia forward and don't care if Russia bitches and whine?
        Nope. If he drags Russia somewhere, he drags us to hell. A state developed on corruption fail predictably and inevitably.
        We're so bad, we're even bad at it

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          John,

          Ok, Putin ain't no Reagan. But is he a Deng Xia Peng? A man willing and able to drag Russia forward and don't care if Russia bitches and whine?

          You know I was thinking about this sometime ago. He (Putin) sure likes to think about himself as a new Deng Xia Peng and his political processes as a new China. This political philosophy is getting a lot of traction among Russians since they see their neighbor which was a backward giant and now almost a new US right on their border. But something tells me this is only a desire in the realm of dreams and not reality. Some points to consider and let’s talk without political correctness.

          Russians are no Chinese and they do not want or cannot work as hard as Chinese are used to. There is no force that can force them to do the same for the same price. Stalin and his "fear economy" is long gone and Putin has no any other methods. Russians already live to well and in certain social luxury - much better than their Chinese neighbors. They cannot use the phrase from Deng Xia Peng our backwardness will be our strength. It will not work.

          Climate and cost of production in Russia is much higher than in China.

          Russians are extremely undisciplined in terms of work and behavior. They have very unruly nature in terms of work ethics. It is a common thing that a guy come completely drunk to work or just simply don't do it. Though you can try and fix this I don't know if it fixable enough and how long will it take.

          Russians in Moscow are used to luxury - people tell me that no one can fire them. That Job offers are all over the place and no one wants to slave too much on the job. Sorry but this is far cry from Chinese model.

          Russians are more educated hence it is difficult to make this model into Chinese with a billion illiterate peasants.

          Russian leadership and bureaucracy is soooooo corrupt that they will effectively kill any possibility of reforms of any kind. 50% loss of production to corruption – can you imagine these numbers!? Every third bill from the Parliament (Duma) or edict from Putin himself is getting lost in echelons of lower bureaucracy. On top of which Putin himself is being accused of building a billion dollar mansion and washing off billions of dollars from oil and gas through the company of Gunvor in Finland through his associate Timchenko. The rest of his henchmen do the same. The only thing to consider in this circle is - personal loyalty and no political challenges for Putin. If you have this than you can do almost anything without fear of being prosecuted.

          Plus other smaller details. So I think that with all due respect Russia using Chinese experience is a dream but nothing serious.
          Last edited by JohnFlint1985; 17 Jan 11,, 16:06.
          "We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
            Russians are extremely undisciplined in terms of work and behavior. They have very unruly nature in terms of work ethics. It is a common thing that a guy come completely drunk to work or just simply don't do it. Though you can try and fix this I don't know if it fixable enough and how long will it take.

            Russians in Moscow are used to luxury - people tell me that no one can fire them. That Job offers are all over the place and no one wants to slave too much on the job.
            May I say "nonsence"?
            We're so bad, we're even bad at it

            Comment


            • You can say whatever you like, and then we'll ask both of you back up your claims with proof. Obviously one of you is talking crap, the only question is which one?
              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                You can say whatever you like, and then we'll ask both of you back up your claims with proof. Obviously one of you is talking crap, the only question is which one?
                My words against his words?
                We're so bad, we're even bad at it

                Comment


                • No, this is why you both need to bring proof to back up your claims. You can bring proof regarding employment levels and job availability, and he can bring some study on worker alcoholism on the job. You can't both be right
                  Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                  Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                    No, this is why you both need to bring proof to back up your claims. You can bring proof regarding employment levels and job availability, and he can bring some study on worker alcoholism on the job. You can't both be right
                    Should you bring evidences when someone calls jews liars, cowards and social parazites? No, because it's pure racism and stupidity as it is.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                      This is my cue. I met Deng in Beijing in 1979. I was part of an advance team for a US cabinet officer about to meet with him. As he arrived he came over to welcome me and my partner, or should I say he came over to flirt with her, a tall, good-looking gal from Wyoming (I think). All I can tell you about him is that he exuded charm and charisma.
                      Sir, that's one thing I don't understand, this "charm and charisma" thing. I haven't met a single person who exudes "charm and charisma." Maybe I'm just not the type who falls for that. I don't like people too much and I really don't trust people who are too courteous. It usually means they have something to hide. I don't trust people who don't get mad either. It means they are probably plotting something, or repressing something.

                      There's my tangent of this morning.
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • w.f.t to charm and charisma, James Lilley is one of the few I met that would fit the bill. You just want to listen to him talk and you know he is right.
                        “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Andrey Egorov View Post
                          May I say "nonsence"?
                          sure you can :)
                          well it is up to you of course but a recent arrival from Moscow told me that for him it is much easier to find a job in Moscow than in US in terms of IT department and he is working there let's say very at ease comparing to more pressure here. From his on words - jobs offers are plentiful and his reasons to leave the country are not about finding jobs, but something else entirely.

                          Job ethics inside Russia is a completely different matter. Young people have more western approach. But still there are plenty complains about someone who didn’t show up, or the job was not finished on time, or someone was just tricked out of his money altogether. And don’t forget never eliminated problem of alcoholism. It didn’t go anywhere. Many problems reported as a direct result of alcohol. Unruly behavior is also interesting – in a recent clip from Moscow a guy apparently drunk behind the wheel was kicking all cars around him and even police had a hard time subduing him.
                          Last edited by JohnFlint1985; 17 Jan 11,, 22:16.
                          "We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by xinhui View Post
                            w.f.t to charm and charisma, James Lilley is one of the few I met that would fit the bill. You just want to listen to him talk and you know he is right.
                            I don't know...for me, it's the message rather than the messenger. Some say Obama has charisma but everytime I hear him talk I just want to reach into the TV and slap him.
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Zampolit View Post
                              Should you bring evidences when someone calls jews liars, cowards and social parazites? No, because it's pure racism and stupidity as it is.
                              I could bring such evidence as I see fit if I was going to be dragged into such an argument (which let's be honest, I wouldn't let myself be dragged into)

                              However, if someone were to tell me that it's incredibly easy to get a job in Jerusalem because everyone is scared to leave the house because of terrorists, then I would post some evidence regarding employment and unemployment levels.

                              John Flint has made a claim that is easily proven or disproven based on employment levels. You can choose to answer his claims, or ignore them if you deem them unworthy of your time. Since you've decided to answer his claims you need some proof to back up your claim, or else it is just that, your words against his.

                              The choice is yours
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                                Sir, that's one thing I don't understand, this "charm and charisma" thing.
                                What's to understand, GN? It's an attraction; a feeling. You can't intellectualize it.

                                The dictionary definition is what I had in mind:


                                -- a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.

                                -- the special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.


                                My encounter with Deng was more than 30 years ago. At that time he was perceived to be leading China to a new level of openness and global economic participation. Considering the still strong isolationist tendencies then and the tight grip the CCP had on every aspect of Chinese life, only a remarkable leader could have pulled this off.

                                I haven't met a single person who exudes "charm and charisma."

                                Not everyone is attracted by charisma which may be why you haven't recognized it in anyone you've met. Or it could be you call a compelling attraction toward someone by another name.

                                Maybe I'm just not the type who falls for that. I don't like people too much and I really don't trust people who are too courteous. It usually means they have something to hide. I don't trust people who don't get mad either. It means they are probably plotting something, or repressing something.

                                There's my tangent of this morning.
                                Lol...some tangent. There's something in what you say. Is that 'trust, but verify'.
                                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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