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  • NATO who are you?

    This question, "who is NATO?" is going to become intensely important now that Russia has abandoned the pretenses of peaceful coexistence. The war in Georgia is not about the right of self determination of the Ossetians, rather it is about the right of Georgians to determine their own fate. Anyone who has looked at a map knows the truth of South Ossetia. It is not a Ossetian homeland, it is a bridgehead. The region sits at the bottom of a mountain pass. With Russia in control of it they control the pass and can aim their oversize army down Georgia's throat. As this week proves, it is all to easy for them to pull the trigger.

    I can't fault the Georgians for trying to seize the area. The one and only hope after NATO's betrayal was to take the pass. They didn't stand a chance, even David had a sling when he fought Goliath, Georgia didn't have any edge at all. But at least the Georgians didn't roll over and take Europe's betrayal like the Czechs did. They fought for their freedom no matter the odds. Sure Georgia may go on as a nominally sovereign state, but the truth is it will more than likely be under Russian suzerainty. This is exactly what Russia wanted when the backed the separatist. This war is no accident, it was planned from Moscow.

    Anyone who has been watching Russia since Putin assumed the thrown has seen this coming. This is simply the latest act of Russian aggression and manipulation. In the past couple of years flush with petro-dollars and under the strong arm leadership of Czar Putin I, Russia has been aggressively re-asserting itself. From menacing the Baltics, to murdering rivals in London there seems to be no restraints on what Russia will do. This isn't as some have alleged the re-birth of the Cold War. This is about empire and power that has more in common with the war from 39-45. Think about it, at home in Russia fascist youth gangs attack those perceived as illegal aliens with the full support of the government. Government propaganda paints Russia as the victim of NATO and shows off its latest weapons to jingoistic citizens. Abroad the slightest misstep by any neighbor brings about the specter of war or economic ruin. In the Russian world view only Russia gets to decide and every one else had better like it or else.

    This new menace to Europe's and ultimately the world's peace and stability poses a very serious question. Who is NATO? I do not mean who the members are, but what do they feel their commitment is. Will Germany go to war with Russia over Poland or Estonia? Will England risk its blood, treasure and perhaps national survival for another member state? Will the US once again commit the souls of hundreds of millions of Americans to possible holocaust to safeguard freedom? This is a critical question that has to be asked and answered. Only a militarily strong and committed NATO can hope to keep Russia in check.

    The Ukraine and if possible whats left of Georgia need to be brought into the alliance as fast as possible. Defense spending needs to go up across the board. 1 and 2% of GDP just won't cut it anymore. And NATO needs to take a stand that tells Russia that the days of empire are over and the threats like the new mobile ICBM that Putin threatened to aim at Europe will be met challenge for challenge.

    Putin like his militaristic predecessors will only be emboldened by success. Europe and America must never forget that appeasement does not work. If NATO truly desires peace it must speak with a unified voice and gird itself for war. Make no mistake there will be more pushes by Russia. Each one more and more bold and bald faced. It will not stop until Russia is stopped. It is within NATO's power to stop Russia, to ensure freedom. But will it, before its too late.

  • #2
    NATO is ABCA.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      NATO is ABCA.
      Is that America, Britain, Canada and non-member Australia?

      ABCA Armies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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      • #4
        Yes.

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        • #5
          Thanks, OOE. You are right we need more support from the continental allies. NATO keeps expanding and its commitments keep growing yet some alliance members seem more and more reluctant to commit troops. Some reform is needed I think.

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          • #6
            I will not degenerate the other NATO military members. They are as frustrated that they cannot help as we are. When your brothers are screaming in pain, it is damned frustrating that you cannot send an ambulance, let alone killing the motherfreak who hurt your brother.

            But by the same token, if you're not going to help, get the hell out of my way.

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            • #7
              so what do you think of my editorial skills?

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              • #8
                Well, I want to know more about Georgia's motivation. There's got to be more than they were counting on NATO help (they've got to know it was not coming) and that they were counting on Russia not stepping in (with Putin in charge, are you kidding me?)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  Well, I want to know more about Georgia's motivation. There's got to be more than they were counting on NATO help (they've got to know it was not coming) and that they were counting on Russia not stepping in (with Putin in charge, are you kidding me?)
                  I think they thought their only chance was to force the issue and seize the pass. Of the three routes that one is the critical one as it is aimed straight down the middle of the country and straight at the capitol. Given Russia's recent escalations such as shooting down UAV and massing troops on the border in July it was only a matter of time until Russia attacked.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zraver View Post

                    This new menace to Europe's and ultimately the world's peace and stability poses a very serious question. Who is NATO? I do not mean who the members are, but what do they feel their commitment is. Will Germany go to war with Russia over Poland or Estonia? Will England risk its blood, treasure and perhaps national survival for another member state? Will the US once again commit the souls of hundreds of millions of Americans to possible holocaust to safeguard freedom? This is a critical question that has to be asked and answered. Only a militarily strong and committed NATO can hope to keep Russia in check.

                    T
                    Not only Germans, but US, Canada or anybody else. Nobody will come and nobody here ( in our military) counts on it. Well, maybe 2 or 3 dimmest politicians do.
                    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

                    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by braindead View Post
                      Not only Germans, but US, Canada or anybody else. Nobody will come and nobody here ( in our military) counts on it. Well, maybe 2 or 3 dimmest politicians do.
                      And thats why Russia is sold bold. NATO has no spine.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        And thats why Russia is sold bold. NATO has no spine.
                        yep....
                        and at least our military is hopefully moving the focus from GWOT and ´mobile, light hi-tech infantry´ has become a rude word in our military. Territorial defence a´la Finland is probably back in vogue soon, thanks to Georgia´s events
                        Last edited by BD1; 10 Aug 08,, 15:03.
                        If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

                        Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Germany might not even go to war if they invaded Germany itself. After all they still have two free invasios left.

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                          • #14
                            I agree completely with Zraver in this instance. I believe that Georgia made a move of desperation to secure Sudentenland... oops, South Ossetia... and that the two increasingly divergent Western power blocs (call them ABCA/NATO and the Central Powers if you wish) will effectively abandon Georgia to the emergent Russian retro-empire. Perhaps the US at least will provide some covert aid of a sort, but I supect not. I should hope we would not abandon Poland or Estonia so lightly, but I cannot be sure.

                            What I am sure of is that, conspiracy theorists aside, the Bush administration is not using this as a diversion to invade Iran. Not happening.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              This question, "who is NATO?" is going to become intensely important now that Russia has abandoned the pretenses of peaceful coexistence. The war in Georgia is not about the right of self determination of the Ossetians, rather it is about the right of Georgians to determine their own fate. Anyone who has looked at a map knows the truth of South Ossetia. It is not a Ossetian homeland, it is a bridgehead. The region sits at the bottom of a mountain pass. With Russia in control of it they control the pass and can aim their oversize army down Georgia's throat. As this week proves, it is all to easy for them to pull the trigger.
                              So the Russian army can't take over Georgia unless it first controls the mountain pass? Considering the disparities in population and military strength, I think Russia can do whatever it wants with Georgia, anytime it feels like it.

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