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  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    Matador is better than nothing, but they are not fire and forget and cost about $5k each. You have to point it at the target with Mark 1 Eyeball. By contrast a Javelin is $250k and can hit a target out to 4km.
    You are comparing Apples to Oranges. Matador is a short range weapon that compares to the SMAW. Great for bunker busting and pop up targets (that BMP that came up from nowhere. It is also capable of being fired from inside structures. Much better weapon when fighting the urban battle.

    As your taking back a city and a tank/BMP pulls out of a alley 300 meters ahead of you, a Javelin doesn't do you any good.

    Also Matador is a one shot disposable weapon, requiring little training. Can be issued to every soldier like a LAAW

    Using American weapons TOW id the long range battle ( .50cal range), Jav is the med range battle (Rifle range), SMAW/Matador (SMAW) is the short range battle (Pistol/knife fight)

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    • For context:

      The Matador were ordered by Ukraine itself from German industry as an ongoing MOTS delivery contract for something they apparently issue widely in the Army. They probably get something like 500 units per week. Beyond the delivered 8,000 the signed contracts are for a further ~5,000 currently.

      They appear on the German list since the entire sale is financed by the German government from a military aid fund for Ukraine.

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      • ISW basically shreds Putin's "semi-mobilization" efforts, from one end to the other.

        Special Edition on Russian Mobilization

        Russian President Vladimir Putin is unlikely to overcome fundamental structural challenges in attempting to mobilize large numbers of Russians to continue his war in Ukraine. The “partial mobilization” he ordered on September 21 will generate additional forces but inefficiently and with high domestic social and political costs. The forces generated by this “partial mobilization,” critically, are very unlikely to add substantially to the Russian military’s net combat power in 2022. Putin will have to fix basic flaws in the Russian military personnel and equipment systems if mobilization is to have any significant impact even in the longer term. His actions thus far suggest that he is far more concerned with rushing bodies to the battlefield than with addressing these fundamental flaws.

        The Russian Armed Forces have not been setting conditions for an effective large-scale mobilization since at least 2008 and have not been building the kind of reserve force needed for a snap mobilization intended to produce immediate effects on the battlefield. There are no rapid solutions to these problems.
        _________
        "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

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        • For our military vets, please forgive the off-topic digression, but is SEAD pronounced "SEE-add" or "SEED". And how is DEAD pronounced?
          "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

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          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            And how is DEAD pronounced?
            I believe it sounds something like 'Russian General'.

            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
              For our military vets, please forgive the off-topic digression, but is SEAD pronounced "SEE-add" or "SEED". And how is DEAD pronounced?
              Way back when, In the fire support community we pronounced them See-add and Dee-Add

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              • Originally posted by dan m View Post
                What are some things the Soviet Air Force could do that the Russian Air Force can’t?
                During the Soviet-Afghan War, the Soviets were running CAS and low level multi plane bombing raids as well as QRF and logistics support to isolated company size garrisons. They were equal if not superior to us at that point in time (Carter years) and they were not casualty adverse. Shooting down a HIND did not stop the others from plastering the shooter.

                Translation: Back when they had money.
                Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 27 Sep 22,, 16:25.
                Chimo

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                • I don't really understand why the Russians keep pressing at Bakhmut. Even if they take it, won't they be vulnerable to get flanked from the north by the UA once they wrap up Lyman?

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                  • Originally posted by statquo View Post
                    I don't really understand why the Russians keep pressing at Bakhmut. Even if they take it, won't they be vulnerable to get flanked from the north by the UA once they wrap up Lyman?
                    We don't sit at the Russian GHQ but to me, it looks like they're trying to spread Ukrainian strength out and commit to deaths of a 1000 cuts.
                    Chimo

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                    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      During the Soviet-Afghan War, the Soviets were running CAS and low level multi plane bombing raids as well as QRF and logistics support to isolated company size garrisons. They were equal if not superior to us at that point in time (Carter years) and they were not casualty adverse. Shooting down a HIND did not stop the others from plastering the shooter.

                      Translation: Back when they had money.
                      Interesting . How did these capabilities atrophy over time? Was it during the 90s that the hard choices were made in regards to what keep /cut for pilot training? I read that SEAD isn't a skillset in the Russian Air Force. The lack of SEAD is a part of the reason the skies above Ukraine remain contested. Was the Soviet AF able to conduct SEAD missions?

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                      • Accepting casualties was part of Soviet tactics. Against American carriers, lesser planes (MiG-21s) were sent out as missile magnets to empty F-14s of their PHOENIX missiles so that MiG-23s/27s would be able to close to tangle in dogfights while BACKFIRE bombers get within range to launch their loads. If you listen to old Soviet pilots, none expected to return home.

                        Fast forward to USSR fall, money isn't there for missile magnets so they retire those planes and concentrate on their top ends fighters/bombers. What is missing is that their tactics still reflect the need for missile magnets but these are gone.

                        Against the Afghans, the Soviets learned SEAD by necessity but the whole battle picture above Europe was never to bomb our columns but to prevent our planes from bombing theirs. Hence, SEAD was not an active requirement since AD nets cannot operate with friendly birds in the skies above.
                        Chimo

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                        • Against the Afghans, the Soviets learned SEAD by necessity
                          Stinger SEAD, lol.

                          Interesting . How did these capabilities atrophy over time? Was it during the 90s that the hard choices were made in regards to what keep /cut for pilot training? I read that SEAD isn't a skillset in the Russian Air Force. The lack of SEAD is a part of the reason the skies above Ukraine remain contested. Was the Soviet AF able to conduct SEAD missions?
                          like I said, RuAF is propaganda air force.

                          the Russkis expected to fight Chechens and Georgians. they certainly didn't expect to fight Ukrainians let alone anyone more sophisticated than that. if they really wanted to use against the Baltics, they would have just used ground forces to overrun the place and then threaten NATO with nukes to prevent a counterattack.

                          sound familiar?

                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                          • back to war news, looks like Lyman is on the verge of getting encircled by UA.

                            https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...05767714603010
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                            • As expected, the Russian "mobilization" is a complete cannon fodder shit show

                              Untrained Russian Draftees Reach The Front
                              Russian conscripts face a battle-hardened enemy that already has bested better-equipped, far more experienced Russian regulars.

                              Russian troops conscripted through Vladimir Putin’s recent mobilization efforts are arriving on the frontlines with little or no training and few supplies. The draftee in the video below claims he was sent into combat near Kherson with no training at all.

                              Elsewhere, Russian troops complain of being dumped near the fighting with nothing but assault rifles. Cursing their commanders, the Russian recruits in the video below claim they were supplied no food or water before being sent to the front.

                              As Brig. Gen. Ryder suggested last week, pouring hundreds of thousands of untrained, poorly equipped recruits into an active combat zone likely will further stress a Russian war machine that has struggled with discipline, logistics, and maintenance since this war began.

                              Russia still must notionally feed, clothe, transport, and provide arms and communications to these recruits, all things it has struggled to provide its regular military units.

                              Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau questioned the effectiveness of raw Russian recruits against hardened Ukrainian forces, especially given the tactical performance of better-trained regular Russian troops earlier in the war.

                              “It's not a very promising move from the military point of view,” Rau said on September 27 at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank in Washington, D.C. “I'm not a military analyst, but following common sense, it doesn't seem a very good solution because if the Ukrainians managed to defeat well-trained and well-equipped Russian soldiers, what's the chance that those that are worse … are going to prevail? I suppose it’s rather unreasonable to expect a breakthrough as the result of a mobilization.”

                              Russia is wholly unprepared to support its newly mobilized source that at least one unit was promised only uniforms and body armor. In the video below, a Russian officer instructs recruits to source their own medical supplies, including tampons as bandages for gunshot wounds.


                              In occupied Crimea:

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                              "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

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                              • Well I see that a priest is blessing all these conscripts and telling them when they die all their sins will be absolved. Oh, boy...

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