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  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Definitely possible but I can't see the Russians doing something so barbaric with the rest of the world laser-focused on Ukraine. Sure, you could get away with that 20-25 years ago in Chechnya, but in this day and age of every Tom, Dick and Harry being able to broadcast instant worldwide hi-def footage....?
    They've got footage of Baghdad since Day 1 of both Wars including the bombing a civilian bomb shelter. Considering the damage and civilian casualties, we might as well have nuked that city twice. Nobody did squat to stop us.

    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    I've always assumed that the objective of a full-scale invasion would be occupy all (or most) of Ukraine east of the Dnieper.
    Putin is a military man. We all have been screaming what an occupation is going to cost him and he must know this also. I wouldn't do it. Why would Putin? Then the question then becomes what can he do with what he got in place without occupation. The answer is alot.

    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    OK, maaaaaaybe. Only how does that solve Putin's very strong comments about Russian security being threatened by the barbarians (West) at the walls? Or is he just using security as a talking point and he is cool with Poland being in NATO?
    A Russian Army being able to route a NATO trained (albeit extremely lightly) and equipped (even more lightly) Ukrainian Army would dirve home the point the Russians again are on par with NATO (not likely but a good propaganda point).

    I'm not worried about Poland. We can re-enforce Poland a hell of a lot faster than Putin can mass for an attack. It's the Baltic States that are under threat. The only way can save the Baltic States is with nukes.
    Chimo

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    • Actually, I remind everyone of the Kuwait War. 500,000 Allied Troops. We could have marched to Baghdad. We didn't but Saddam must have felt we were. Instead, we destroyed the Iraqi Army and sacked every major city in Iraq, albeit by air. Saddam was left to pick up the pieces himself. The difference here is that Ukraine DOESN'T have a strongman who can keep the country together after the defeat.
      Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 24 Feb 22,, 03:10.
      Chimo

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      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        They've got footage of Baghdad since Day 1 of both Wars including the bombing a civilian bomb shelter. Considering the damage and civilian casualties, we might as well have nuked that city twice. Nobody did squat to stop us.
        I don't see those situations as being anywhere close to comparable. The U.S. wasn't targeting civilian bomb shelters in particular or civilian-exclusive targets in general. The damage was nowhere near a nuclear strike. Finally, virtually the whole world was against Saddam. It wasn't just "us" as you pointed out in your next post.
        Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          Actually, I remind everyone of the Kuwait War. 500,000 Allied Troops. We could have marched to Baghdad. We didn't but Saddam must have felt we were. Instead, we destroyed the Iraqi Army and sacked every major city in Iraq, albeit by air. Saddam was left to pick up the pieces himself. The difference here is that Ukraine DOESN'T have a strongman who can keep the country together after the defeat.
          U.S. and maybe British forces theoretically could have marched on Baghdad. Every other nation would've stopped dead in their tracks and the Arab forces would've been potential threat to our rear area.

          And targeting military installations via is hardly sacking a city. You need an occupying ground force engaging in large scale vandalism, looting and pillaging to a sack a city.
          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            I don't see those situations as being anywhere close to comparable. The U.S. wasn't targeting civilian bomb shelters in particular or civilian-exclusive targets in general. The damage was nowhere near a nuclear strike. Finally, virtually the whole world was against Saddam. It wasn't just "us" as you pointed out in your next post.
            Hiroshima was 10 square blocks. We did a hell of a lot more damage than 10 square blocks. Civilian casualties were collateral damage. 200,000+

            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            U.S. and maybe British forces theoretically could have marched on Baghdad. Every other nation would've stopped dead in their tracks and the Arab forces would've been potential threat to our rear area.
            The point is that Putin could do the same kind of damage without occupying Ukraine.

            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            And targeting military installations via is hardly sacking a city. You need an occupying ground force engaging in large scale vandalism, looting and pillaging to a sack a city.
            Not military installations. Military targets. A hell of a big difference. Military targets include bridges, TV stations, Water pumping stations, roads (ie, LOCs), and just about every place with an AK47 in it which happens to be a lot of homes. THUNDER RUN saw the US shooting up a lot of civilian cars just because they were in the way. And there were looting by the Iraqi civilians. Either way, you could not tell the difference.

            Chimo

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            • it's starting.

              Dear Minskaya, I hope by the time this is all over there will be a flood of Russian footstools to serve you in Valhalla. Glory to Ukraine. I pray for you and your nation tonight and for the nights to come.
              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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              • Dam, hasn't that got the potential to turn very bad very quickly!
                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                  it's starting.

                  Dear Minskaya, I hope by the time this is all over there will be a flood of Russian footstools to serve you in Valhalla. Glory to Ukraine. I pray for you and your nation tonight and for the nights to come.
                  Don't know about the 'footstools' but amen to all the rest.
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                  • According to Rubio

                    Russia’s airborne forces are attempting to take control of the airport in Kyiv to they can fly in forces to occupy the capitol city

                    An amphibious assault on the key port city of Mariupol is now underway

                    Ground forces now moving in from Belarus, Crimea & from Russia
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

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                    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                      it's starting.

                      Dear Minskaya, I hope by the time this is all over there will be a flood of Russian footstools to serve you in Valhalla. Glory to Ukraine. I pray for you and your nation tonight and for the nights to come.
                      Been thinking about Minnie a lot these past few weeks.

                      I hope that one day Ukraine can become the nation whe was prepared to give her life for. Sadly that day is not yet near.
                      sigpic

                      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                      • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                        According to Rubio

                        Russia’s airborne forces are attempting to take control of the airport in Kyiv to they can fly in forces to occupy the capitol city

                        An amphibious assault on the key port city of Mariupol is now underway

                        Ground forces now moving in from Belarus, Crimea & from Russia
                        Live reports don't indicate any current ongoing fighting in Kiev, only some distant explosions earlier in the evening which could have been bomb or missile strikes. To early to tell yet how extensive the invasion is.
                        If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                        Comment


                        • Simultaneous landing operations in Mariupol and Odessa, troops moving on Kharkiv, and what looks to be a decapitation strike operation by Russian Paras in Kyiv. Given the amount of intel NATO has been feeding the Ukrainian military, I wonder how they will decide to play this out.
                          "Draft beer, not people."

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                          • Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                            Simultaneous landing operations in Mariupol and Odessa, troops moving on Kharkiv, and what looks to be a decapitation strike operation by Russian Paras in Kyiv. Given the amount of intel NATO has been feeding the Ukrainian military, I wonder how they will decide to play this out.
                            Uhh, seems like that final battle scene in Lord of the Rings where the Orcs surround them on all sides and Aragorn shouts a big YOLO. Seems like uncontested amphibious landings, uncontested crossing at Crimea and Kharkiv and Sumy, possibly contested near Kirovo.
                            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                            • Kharkiv

                              Live Conflict on Twitter: "BREAKING: Kharkiv, Ukraine right now. #Ukraina #Russia https://t.co/lWOgRWhIPL" / Twitter
                              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                              Leibniz

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                              • Mykolaivka

                                Live Conflict on Twitter: "BREAKING: First footage is emerging near Mykolaivka. You can hear the heavy clashes between Ukraine and Russian forces. #Ukraine #Russia https://t.co/0ikYJlfdDs" / Twitter
                                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                                Leibniz

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