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  • ^No, i mean parapet, head below. Unseen.

    No more of this three monkeys stuff. No see, no hear, no talk.

    Canada sticks out for Saudi human rights abuses and they were met with a deafening silence from the world.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Nov 18,, 16:05.

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    • The CPC is an insecure bully. Anybody saying else, gets on my nerves. Look at how they're behaving.
      I don't understand why you're projecting modern shrink gobbledygook onto what is, in essence, a proprietary attitude that's been around for thousands of years. In essence, the attitude is that China is the center of the world, and all under heaven will eventually fall into its benevolent emperor's ambit. That is the entire point of the podcast.

      China's neighbors, which will change as it annexes more territory, need to prepare for the onslaught. If their tiny defense budgets are any indication, these neighbors have a strategy that consists of pretending that China has no territorial demands worth worrying about. Their secondary strategy is to fight China to the last dead American. We'll see how these assumptions play out in the years ahead, as Chinese leaders, following in the footsteps of the giants before them, attempt to inscribe their names more prominently in the history books. Chinese history is no different from anyone else's. Conquerors have pride of place.

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      • Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
        I don't understand why you're projecting modern shrink gobbledygook onto what is, in essence, a proprietary attitude that's been around for thousands of years.
        Compared to the Americans who got the rest to accept hegemony by consent ? the CCP comes across rather thin skinned as they cannot brook dissent at home let alone abroad. As their mouth piece global times in english lets us know on a regular basis.

        In essence, the attitude is that China is the center of the world, and all under heaven will eventually fall into its benevolent emperor's ambit. That is the entire point of the podcast.

        China's neighbors, which will change as it annexes more territory, need to prepare for the onslaught. If their tiny defense budgets are any indication, these neighbors have a strategy that consists of pretending that China has no territorial demands worth worrying about. Their secondary strategy is to fight China to the last dead American. We'll see how these assumptions play out in the years ahead, as Chinese leaders, following in the footsteps of the giants before them, attempt to inscribe their names more prominently in the history books. Chinese history is no different from anyone else's. Conquerors have pride of place.
        Agree

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        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Compared to the Americans who got the rest to accept hegemony by consent ? the CCP comes across rather thin skinned as they cannot brook dissent at home let alone abroad. As their mouth piece global times in english lets us know on a regular basis.



          Agree
          Just how many people become big names in the history books by means of "hegemony"? Conquest and annexation are the name of the game, same as it's ever been since the dawn of recorded history, when poets started spinning tales of heroic quests. People seem to assume that we've reached the end of history, and lasting fame is no longer achieved by mere conquest, annexation and pacification. I'm inclined to disagree.

          Chinese leaders aren't thin-skinned. They have a proprietary attitude. They would no more accept back-talk from either their subjects or foreign barbarians than a farmer would take any guff from the farm animals in his possession. While they're not exactly caught up, technology-wise, their attitude vis-a-vis the West might be encapsulated by the thoughts of a European explorer, trussed up by by cannibals and about to end up on the dinner table: "These people might have a leg up now, but I am superior and resourceful, and I will outwit them".
          Last edited by Mithridates; 18 Nov 18,, 01:45.

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          • Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
            I don't understand why you're projecting modern shrink gobbledygook onto what is, in essence, a proprietary attitude that's been around for thousands of years. In essence, the attitude is that China is the center of the world, and all under heaven will eventually fall into its benevolent emperor's ambit. That is the entire point of the podcast.
            Time for Emperors and Kings and Queens has long gone. What we have now are remnants of those medieval systems and thinking that everybody should fall in line, or else. The issue here is what can the Chinese do, apart from give out childish statements. US dominated, because they had the technology to fill the gap every decade with continuous innovation, technological advances that gave them bigger guns. What do the Chinese have apart from hacking, stealing, copying western systems? So, my observation about an insecure bully is apt. They want to have it all, and then they're afraid of using whatever gun they have, and so lash out in frustration.

            Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
            China's neighbors, which will change as it annexes more territory, need to prepare for the onslaught. If their tiny defense budgets are any indication, these neighbors have a strategy that consists of pretending that China has no territorial demands worth worrying about. Their secondary strategy is to fight China to the last dead American. We'll see how these assumptions play out in the years ahead, as Chinese leaders, following in the footsteps of the giants before them, attempt to inscribe their names more prominently in the history books. Chinese history is no different from anyone else's. Conquerors have pride of place.
            Every half a century rises a nation guided by zealots, that ultimately mirrors the behavior of the Nazis. Like the Nazis they start with controlling, purging (Uighurs/Tibetans), genocide and then war. If history is what you're talking about, and history is any precedent, things didn't end very well for the Nazis nor is history kind to them.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
              Every half a century rises a nation guided by zealots, that ultimately mirrors the behavior of the Nazis. Like the Nazis they start with controlling, purging (Uighurs/Tibetans), genocide and then war. If history is what you're talking about, and history is any precedent, things didn't end very well for the Nazis nor is history kind to them.
              They're neither zealots nor Nazis. Their ancestors built a continental-sized empire larger than Nazi Germany, 2000 years ago, at a time when the Teutonic ancestors of modern Germany were running around in animal skins, when they weren't being pummeled by the Roman troops or whatever nomadic armies had been displaced from China's ever-expanding borders. For them, history runs in cycles*, and it's their turn at the helm, with a new golden age just about to dawn.

              * That's pretty much the answer to the question "Where do they get off thinking they can be top dog? Aren't they a busted flush of a civilization?"

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              • Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
                They're neither zealots nor Nazis. Their ancestors built a continental-sized empire larger than Nazi Germany, 2000 years ago, at a time when the Teutonic ancestors of modern Germany were running around in animal skins, when they weren't being pummeled by the Roman troops or whatever nomadic armies had been displaced from China's ever-expanding borders. For them, history runs in cycles*, and it's their turn at the helm, with a new golden age just about to dawn.

                * That's pretty much the answer to the question "Where do they get off thinking they can be top dog? Aren't they a busted flush of a civilization?"
                There is one more country, China's neighbour that has one of the oldest history amongst early civilizations, the world's oldest religion, almost the same population as compared to China and this country throughout its history has suffered invasions, killings, subjugations and colonialism. Europeans and Arabs traders faced harsh waves and fought off pirates to seek spices and riches from this land. That country today is a democracy (ever evolving) and do not go on an ever expanding land conquest, which it can through ancient maps very well do, to the very last border in Afghanistan and Sri Lanka of today. That country gave birth to 3 other religions Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism, and going by your logic can lay claim to all modern nations that has adopted the Buddha and his teachings. It was also a place where the persecuted, who fled their native lands (Zoroastrians to the Jews), found a place to stay because Hinduism is all welcoming.

                Richness of the past should be remembered with pride and celebrated, not thrust into a weak opponent's face to claim their land. The Third Reich thought of it much the same, while transforming itself into a totalitarian state controlling all aspects of life through the Gleichschaltung process. I'm not sorry China is starting to grow in the same direction. Not my land. But they'll be cut back to size if their salami slicing policies don't stop.
                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                • Police called on diplomats as APEC summit tensions boil over

                  Police were called when Chinese officials attempted to "barge" into the office of Papua New Guinea's foreign minister, it emerged Sunday, as APEC summit tensions boiled over.

                  The Chinese delegates "tried to barge in" to Rimbink Pato's Port Moresby office Saturday, in an eleventh-hour bid to influence a summit draft communique, but were denied entry, three sources with knowledge of the situation told AFP.
                  This is not the first time Chinese officials have been involved in a tense incident at a regional meeting.

                  At the Pacific Islands Forum in September, Nauru's president demanded China apologise after its delegation walked out of a meeting when the host refused to let an envoy speak until island leaders had finished.

                  "They're not our friends. They just need us for their own purposes," President Baron Waqa said at the time.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    Richness of the past should be remembered with pride and celebrated, not thrust into a weak opponent's face to claim their land.
                    This is the primary reason a rules based order has to be defended and is continuously iterated by all concerned at every Indo-pacific meet. We don't want to slip back into some great powers normal that existed in the 19th century. The century that the Chinese have a big chip on their shoulder about unequal treaties. Ironic they would want to propagate the same on others. They should know better.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Nov 18,, 15:47.

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                    • hehe, these islanders are plucky. Not talking back to the Aussies any time soon. Here's why

                      US to join Australia in Papua New Guinea naval base plan | BBC | Nov 17 2018

                      Way to go Aussies
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Nov 18,, 16:07.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        hehe, these islanders are plucky. Not talking back to the Aussies any time soon. Here's why

                        US to join Australia in Papua New Guinea naval base plan | BBC | Nov 17 2018

                        Way to go Aussies
                        Yeah, I've read this piece. So the Aussies are growing a spine after the damage done by Mr. Rudd.

                        The issue here is, if a single country cries 'wolf', we can say it's absurd. Not when, almost all cry 'wolf'.
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          This is the primary reason a rules based order has to be defended and is continuously iterated by all concerned at every Indo-pacific meet. We don't want to slip back into some great powers normal that existed in the 19th century. The century that the Chinese have a big chip on their shoulder about unequal treaties. Ironic they would want to propagate the same on others. They should know better.
                          Yes.
                          But, unequal treaties? Century of humiliation? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

                          Chinese century of humiliation is 110 years. Let's do a comparison with India. Muslim rule was established in India in 1192, when Muhammed Ghori defeated Prithviraj Chauhan in the second battle of Tarain. In between the Mewar Kings captured lost territory and for some centuries held onto it, but Delhi was under Muslim rule. Infact, ancient India was ruled by the Persians and Alexander between 530BC to 326BC, until the exhausted army of Alexander mutinied against fighting a much larger and stronger Nanda Empire.

                          Then we've had the Portuguese, Dutch, Brits, & French. How many centuries of humiliation have Indians faced? The world should be at our feet by that logic.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                            Yeah, I've read this piece. So the Aussies are growing a spine after the damage done by Mr. Rudd.
                            They've had 6 PM's in ten years. Each leader had to fight to survive locally. Quite beleaguered that is why the delay. I'm amazed they managed to come out with something coherent.

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                            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              There is one more country
                              What is now India wasn't a *country* at the time, any more Germany was a *country*. [/QUOTE]
                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              oldest history amongst early civilization
                              My response to this and to Chinese claims of superiority on this basis? This is like a panhandler shaking a tin cup at the corner of World Trade Center who claims that his forebears were Rockefellers. He had the benefit of a head start and squandered it all. He is worthless. Maybe worse than worthless. The Chinese (and presumably Indian) response would be to talk about how history moves in cycles.
                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              the world's oldest religion
                              Holding to a single tradition of mysticism and superstition over thousands of years isn't quite the recommendation you might think it is.
                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              But they'll be cut back to size if their salami slicing policies don't stop.
                              In the best case, China's neighbors recognize the threat, decide to spend serious money on defense, and manage to cobble together an alliance that isn't just hot air instead of burying their heads in the sand and relying on Uncle Sam to fight the Chinese for them. But it's unlikely that China will be cut down to size, if by that you mean that the threat will be neutralized in the way Germany was after WWII. It's simply too big to control and keep down with anything short of nuclear annihilation, and who in his right mind would embark on a conventional invasion of China to partition it, given the ruinous toll in friendly casualties and sheer financial costs?

                              Three decades of all-pervasive central economic planning after WWII brought China about as low as it's ever gotten, relative to the rest of the world. Once Deng started phasing it out, the clock started ticking again on the revival of Chinese military capabilities to match its territorial ambitions. In 1949, the Communists decisively evicted the Nationalists from the mainland. Just a year later, instead of consolidating its gains and working to prevent counter-revolution, Communist-ruled China fought a nuclear-armed US in Korea. Just over a decade later, it fought India. Then, less than a decade later, it fought a nuclear-armed Soviet Union. All of these engagements were fought at a time of economic prostration for China.

                              China's neighbors should get ready for the big game. Because it is coming, perhaps sooner than they think.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                There is one more country
                                What is now India wasn't a *country* at the time, any more Germany was a *country*. [/QUOTE]
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                oldest history amongst early civilization
                                My response to this and to Chinese claims of superiority on this basis? This is like a panhandler shaking a tin cup at the corner of World Trade Center who claims that his forebears were Rockefellers. He had the benefit of a head start and squandered it all. He is worthless. Maybe worse than worthless. The Chinese (and presumably Indian) response would be to talk about how history moves in cycles.
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                the world's oldest religion
                                Holding to a single tradition of mysticism and superstition over thousands of years isn't quite the recommendation you might think it is.
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                But they'll be cut back to size if their salami slicing policies don't stop.
                                In the best case, China's neighbors recognize the threat, decide to spend serious money on defense, and manage to cobble together an alliance that isn't just hot air instead of burying their heads in the sand and relying on Uncle Sam to fight the Chinese for them. But it's unlikely that China will be cut down to size, if by that you mean that the threat will be neutralized in the way Germany was after WWII. It's simply too big to control and keep down with anything short of nuclear annihilation, and who in his right mind would embark on a conventional invasion of China to partition it, given the ruinous toll in friendly casualties and sheer financial costs?

                                Three decades of all-pervasive central economic planning after WWII brought China about as low as it's ever gotten, relative to the rest of the world. Once Deng started phasing it out, the clock started ticking again on the revival of Chinese military capabilities to match its territorial ambitions. In 1949, the Communists decisively evicted the Nationalists from the mainland. Just a year later, instead of consolidating its gains and working to prevent counter-revolution, Communist-ruled China fought a nuclear-armed US in Korea. Just over a decade later, it fought India. Then, less than a decade later, it fought a nuclear-armed Soviet Union. All of these engagements were fought at a time of economic prostration for China.

                                China's neighbors should get ready for the big game. Because it is coming, perhaps sooner than they think.

                                Comment

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