The Korean Dilemma

[hboGYT]

Hypothetically, if KJU decided not to respond to the summon. What could the Chinese have done?

[Officer of Engineers]

Ah you mean in the eyes of his neighbours. This part i don't fully understand. Kim hasn't given anything up yet. Why does what the neighbours think matter then

If the Japanese can't make a deal with Kim, they can appeal to Xi.

Where did the Chinese portray him as kowtowing to the Japanese ?

All that stuff the Chinese had broadcast for several days. This was afterall an "unofficial visit" (Xinhua words) meaning that KJU did not merit an "Official visit" status.

[Double Edge]

If KJU was in the driver seat, would he allow the Chinese to portray him as kowtowing to the Japanese? He lost more than a few pegs in the NE Asia.

Ah you mean in the eyes of his neighbours. This part i don't fully understand. Kim hasn't given anything up yet. Why does what the neighbours think matter then

Where did the Chinese portray him as kowtowing to the Japanese ?

No. The world now knows that China has been lying all along about having limited influence in North Korea, that they allowed KJU to get his nukes.

By winner i mean Xi in the eyes of his people. There is too much showmanship coming from Xi these days. Where is the substance

Because for long now Kim couldn't give a damn about Xi. Firing off missiles a half hour before the BRICS conference last Sept for example. Half hour warning is all the Chinese got.

I don't think there was any doubt at least in my mind that NK is a China proxy for hitting out at SK, Japan, US and the treaties. A most effective one at that as well.

China saying limited influence is the usual excuses which means you need to either offer them more or make threats.

China is now in the game because she was forced out of the shadows.

Yes

It is certainly more complex. What is China's objective in allowing KJU's nukes and what is China's price to get rid of them?

A whole lot of questions that this meet has raised that needs further re-evaluation of old intelligence.

Ah, you mean now there is another party at the table with its own set of requirements. Further complicating how talks go.

Kim can't make deals with the South or the Americans unless China is in the loop

[Officer of Engineers]

In China

Exactly

Will they replay all that in NK ? Doubtful

If KJU was in the driver seat, would he allow the Chinese to portray him as kowtowing to the Japanese? He lost more than a few pegs in the NE Asia.

So Xi is the main winner here.

No. The world now knows that China has been lying all along about having limited influence in North Korea, that they allowed KJU to get his nukes.

The message i read is China is now in the game because the US talks idea cut both China & Japan out of the loop. Going over China's head

China is now in the game because she was forced out of the shadows.

Are Kim's future actions constrained in any way as a result of kowtowing as you say ?

It is certainly more complex. What is China's objective in allowing KJU's nukes and what is China's price to get rid of them?

A whole lot of questions that this meet has raised that needs further re-evaluation of old intelligence.

[Double Edge]

It's kowtowing. You don't get photographed writing Xi's words and having your "Moral Obligation" and "Solem Duty" to visit China speech broadcast to the public if you're the man in charge. KJU is publically being broadcast by the Chinese paying homage to Xi. This on an "unofficial visit" meaning that there was no pagentry planned. It was a summons.

In China

KJU can play whatever angle he likes in North Korea but he has been just seen to kowtow to Xi by everyone else.

Exactly

Will they replay all that in NK ? Doubtful

So Xi is the main winner here.

The message i read is China is now in the game because the US talks idea cut both China & Japan out of the loop. Going over China's head

Are Kim's future actions constrained in any way as a result of kowtowing as you say ?

The dynamics has changed. Trump now knows that he has to make a deal with Xi and not with KJU.

This play is further along. Up next its the two Koreas. Sunshine policy again.

[Officer of Engineers]

It's kowtowing. You don't get photographed writing Xi's words and having your "Moral Obligation" and "Solem Duty" to visit China speech broadcast to the public if you're the man in charge. KJU is publically being broadcast by the Chinese paying homage to Xi. This on an "unofficial visit" meaning that there was no pagentry planned. It was a summons.

KJU can play whatever angle he likes in North Korea but he has been just seen to kowtow to Xi by everyone else.

The dynamics has changed. Trump now knows that he has to make a deal with Xi and not with KJU.

[Double Edge]

A different take

Everybody thinks Kim has to be managed but he's out manouvering the bigger guys

Japan doesn't have a say in the matter

He is driving a wedge between the US & South Korea.

He is playing China off the US. To say he will meet with Trump before he has even met a Chinese leader is slapping the Chinese good.

Xi obviously had to do something. So we get the photos the nice words.

Kim kowtow to Xi or Xi saving face ?

Big man Xi doesn't even know what's going on in his own backyard. That changes now maybe

As for Americans, before this talks idea was mentioned it was all sabre rattling, now the Americans are ok with the idea so he's got them to tone it down

Kim's looking good so far

[TopHatter]

We need to keep this thread on topic: North Korea, not Ukraine. Please move other topics for discussion to their appropriate thread, thank you.

[Officer of Engineers]

Since this had to be done...

Yeah, you had to show your ignorance

I might call horse whatever here if I wore your shoes. Do you even know where Mariupol is? It is the extreme coastal side of the front - on the Sea of Azov. How the hell would 10,000 men, if they advanced via Velnokhava (as they tried) to bypass Mariupol - or anywhere else -back to Slovyansk - Dnipro or to Kharkiv have helped? You just wanted to see us kill each other as you said. How many times you visited Ukraine? How many since the war started? Yet you say 10,000 troops in a coastal city at the extreme southern end would stop the whole front? Stick to building bridges and whisky. It's blatantly wrong. How would they stop a breakout for Kharkiv or Dnipro and the river sitting in Mariupol? It's nonesense. But I am pleased you have admitted that you did offer your opinion of what Ukraine should do as you previously denied having done that.

A simple look at the map showed the entire Rostov Oblast wide open. Yeah, try again with your horse puckey and your pretend military knowledge.

The 2014 arguments are still pertinent in Ukraine military thinking and choices. It is unfortunate. I will not go into details here.

I don't know who you're pretending to talk to but the ground picture has changed dramatically since 2014. Russia is both unwilling and unable to intervene with full armies. The best they will do is to give the rebels HQs.

But previously you derided our military industry with exports and just recently regarding the production ATGMs; the Kornet is linear, the Javelin top down.

KORNETS killed MERKEVAs. They can kill anything in the Russian inventory. But you can't get KORNETS. They're manufactured in Russia. Yeah, that little detail escaped you, didn't it?

You need JAVELINS because you can't get your own house in order and I freaking don't know why. CORSAR, SKIF, STUGNA-P, BARRIER has not reached effective numbers and you think less than 100 JAVELINS is going to change the picture?

Thailand seem happy enough. Contract completed. Just ordered some French helicopters for emergency services (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1GZ1FK)

Well thank god, the Russians is not committing fast movers.

Doubtless you would wish we all die honourably so you can pretend to have nothing to do with it.

Oh for freak sakes! I never did wore an Ukrainian uniform. How can my postings on an internet forum have anything to do with your war? My only effect is my vote on how my country should behave but to pretend that I have anything to do with your war is your delusion and your delusion only.

If it is nothing to with you why Mueller? But you guys have misread this whole situation and basic ethos since forever. Look I'll give you an example: Couple of weeks ago I was speaking to a Romanian Officer about their plans regarding a possible escalation via Transdniestria.

Horse puckey! Every NATO Officer understands the need for airpower and you speak of NATO airpower, you speaking of American airpower. We even could not do Lybia without the Americans. If the Americans won't go, we won't go. Yeah, you really hate Trump now. BTW, what's that officer's name?

He more or less said they had them but did not want to jeapordise the US missile defence shield so would have to ask the Yanks at the political level probably. Of course. I can understand that. Perfecly logical. He would want to go tomorrow but not his choice. Then perhaps you may have more us hated eastern europeans killing others. Is it nothing to do with you? Don't kid yourself. The world is more joined up than ever. What is something to do with you? When they interfere in elections? Seemingly not. When they try to murder British citizens on a Saturday afternoon in Salisbury? Apparently. When they invade their neighbour it is not? This is just the forward station of the war that has been clearly declared on all of the 'West' and if you do not have the intelligence to see that you are entirely misguided imv. I saw it in 2008 when I joined this forum but I was not the first by any count. And guess what? Sure you guys made gains with your long vigilance during the "Cold War" but you did not "win" it. Ukrainian revolutions would not have happened without your service, Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Romanian (though they did much themselves), Bulgarian, liberty as we know it today would not be possible. But you did not finish it. The KGB was back in power within 9 yrs! You thought it was over because they were no commies... You never understood and still refuse to.

What a load of horse puckey! I can tear you to bits but suffice to say. Their house, their rules. Your house, your rules. My house, my rules. Live with it.

I cannot recall the wording of what I read some time ago but my point stands no US; no Article 5 and to claim that it was nothing to do with the US or passed without them is simply false. I believe your original statement was that the US never invoked it.

The US did not invoke ARTICLE 5. They supported its invokation. It was said so in your own link but you somehow chosed to ignore that piece of writing.

Sure may not the first to raise the subject but they pressed it once it was raised. Who's original idea idea it was is irrelevant; without Powell and Bush saying "yes" it would not have happened which hardly matches your "it was all the allies without the US" who passed it as the US sat by passively having been attacked account which is a misleading account at best. The US was totally behind the NATO declaration of Article 5 and that did not mean necessarily a declaration of war as you previously alleged. But you asked me if I ever read Article 5?

Sure it's irrevelent since it was CENTCOM and not NATO that ran the war in Afghanistan. The forces committed to combat operations, including 22 SAS, was under American CENTCOM command and not NATO command. It was a nice political statement but had zero effect on combat operations in Afghanistan.

Not sure how this affects your claims that the invocation of Article 5 was in no way anything to do with the US.

Simple. The US didn't asked for it. They didn't used it. CENTCOM was not under NATO jurisdiction.

It was. Completely. Not sure me being more used to Ukrainian now is anything to do with this either.

Yeah, you have a habbit of bring irrevelent things into a debate.

Well I do not know what sat imagery you used to use back in the day but apparently this reactor is reactivated since his return. Not seen it myself but I trust my source for this.

That's extremely funny since this is FROM YOUR SOURCE! Yeah, I trust your source but apparently, you can't read or just pretend to know what y

--------Ahead of Trump summit, new activity at North Korea nuke site

Satellite imagery taken last month suggests the North has begun preliminary testing of an experimental light water reactor and possibly brought another reactor online at its Yongbyon Nuclear Research Center. ----------

I would assume that China was ok with this but as you insist. Regarding putting imaginary "sent to him room without supper" conjecture into it I agree but it is you saying Kim is Xi's obedient vassal. We do not know. And that should be scary.

You do know that it's just not me but every China watcher saying the same thing! I've been a China watcher for decades. We know a smackdown when we see one because we've seen them before.

You think the current US President is a professional? A professional crook? Molester? Not sure 'professionals' of that nature deserve our respect.

I don't care if you think the POTUS is professional or not. YOU DO NOT DISPLAY PROFESSIONALISM when presenting your data. If my superiors or I hear Trumpkin by a presenter, we tossed his ass out of our CP without looking at his eval. It speaks of poor professionalism in keeping his biases out of the intel and we can't trust his judgement. We DON'T TRUST YOUR JUDGEMENT since we verified your claims to be false.

And by the way I left the UK diplomatic service and had not started Uni when '9/11' happened.

Well that just put everything you said about your Foreign service to be a complete lie! Not started university in 2001. So you started university in 2002 and possibly got a job in 2005. Less than 10 years service and you're trying to tell me that Senior Bureaucrats and Generals tell you things in confidence? And you're trying to tell me events that I was involved in? I watched Collin Powell on live TV personally thanking NATO for invoking ARTICLE 5. Truth be told, he had more important things to do. We grounded every commercial aircraft in North America and refused entry of European departed aircrafts. State and Foreign Affairs were too busy arranging stay visas for all those passengers, especially for non-American and non-Canadian citizens being turned back to Europe. So, you're going to lecture me of things that I experienced trying to make heads and tails of a colossal clusterfuck that the US invoked ARTICLE 5 when clearly they didn't nor did they needed it. They supported it but in no way did they used it. CENTCOM ran the war, not NATO and not ARTICLE 5 assets.

I'm going to ignore the rest. You're just a youngster telling us what we lived through was wrong.

[snapper]

Since this had to be done...

Oh freaking god! 10,000 men is a division. You cannot leave an entire division in your rear that can cut your supply lines. Leaving a division in that fortress will tie down an entire army to protect the LOC. In other words, 10,000 men just stopped 30,000 men from marching on Kiev and actually requiring Russia to commit real Russian armies and not just HQs to the fight. Something that they're unwilling to do.

I might call horse whatever here if I wore your shoes. Do you even know where Mariupol is? It is the extreme coastal side of the front - on the Sea of Azov. How the hell would 10,000 men, if they advanced via Velnokhava (as they tried) to bypass Mariupol - or anywhere else -back to Slovyansk - Dnipro or to Kharkiv have helped? You just wanted to see us kill each other as you said. How many times you visited Ukraine? How many since the war started? Yet you say 10,000 troops in a coastal city at the extreme southern end would stop the whole front? Stick to building bridges and whisky. It's blatantly wrong. How would they stop a breakout for Kharkiv or Dnipro and the river sitting in Mariupol? It's nonesense. But I am pleased you have admitted that you did offer your opinion of what Ukraine should do as you previously denied having done that.

But you're lost in such things and I'm freaking tired of explaining military thinking to someone who refuses to learn.

The 2014 arguments are still pertinent in Ukraine military thinking and choices. It is unfortunate. I will not go into details here.

I don't need or want your respect. What I demand is you stop being the idiot know it all when we keep proving you wrong.

But previously you derided our military industry with exports and just recently regarding the production ATGMs; the Kornet is linear, the Javelin top down. Thailand seem happy enough. Contract completed. Just ordered some French helicopters for emergency services (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1GZ1FK).

And she died for her country and with honour. Do I want you to keep killing Russians? If by your words that the west is at war, then the more you kill, the less we have to. However, your war is for you to fight. We have no say in it.

Doubtless you would wish we all die honourably so you can pretend to have nothing to do with it. If it is nothing to with you why Mueller? But you guys have misread this whole situation and basic ethos since forever. Look I'll give you an example: Couple of weeks ago I was speaking to a Romanian Officer about their plans regarding a possible escalation via Transdniestria. He more or less said they had them but did not want to jeapordise the US missile defence shield so would have to ask the Yanks at the political level probably. Of course. I can understand that. Perfecly logical. He would want to go tomorrow but not his choice. Then perhaps you may have more us hated eastern europeans killing others. Is it nothing to do with you? Don't kid yourself. The world is more joined up than ever. What is something to do with you? When they interfere in elections? Seemingly not. When they try to murder British citizens on a Saturday afternoon in Salisbury? Apparently. When they invade their neighbour it is not? This is just the forward station of the war that has been clearly declared on all of the 'West' and if you do not have the intelligence to see that you are entirely misguided imv. I saw it in 2008 when I joined this forum but I was not the first by any count. And guess what? Sure you guys made gains with your long vigilance during the "Cold War" but you did not "win" it. Ukrainian revolutions would not have happened without your service, Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Romanian (though they did much themselves), Bulgarian, liberty as we know it today would not be possible. But you did not finish it. The KGB was back in power within 9 yrs! You thought it was over because they were no commies... You never understood and still refuse to.

NOT ASKING FOR ARTICLE 5!

I cannot recall the wording of what I read some time ago but my point stands no US; no Article 5 and to claim that it was nothing to do with the US or passed without them is simply false. I believe your original statement was that the US never invoked it. Sure may not the first to raise the subject but they pressed it once it was raised. Who's original idea idea it was is irrelevant; without Powell and Bush saying "yes" it would not have happened which hardly matches your "it was all the allies without the US" who passed it as the US sat by passively having been attacked account which is a misleading account at best. The US was totally behind the NATO declaration of Article 5 and that did not mean necessarily a declaration of war as you previously alleged. But you asked me if I ever read Article 5?

For freak sakes, you have a problem with plain old English? The Americans DID NOT asked for ARTICLE 5 and Afghanistan was NOT a NATO mission until three years in. Eurocorps insulted the Canadians by rejecting 3 PPCLI and asking for 300 engineers instead. The Americans tooked 3 PPCLI with 187th BCT instead. These were NOT NATO Commands.

Not sure how this affects your claims that the invocation of Article 5 was in no way anything to do with the US. It was. Completely. Not sure me being more used to Ukrainian now is anything to do with this either.

Oh for Pete sakes, what part of it takes days to fire up a reactor do you NOT understand. By the time we detected the activity, the reactor was running for days to get hot enough before we can detect it or is simple facts too hard for you?

Well I do not know what sat imagery you used to use back in the day but apparently this reactor is reactivated since his return. Not seen it myself but I trust my source for this.

I answered you! Xi was NOT consulted before hand and since the reactor was not cooled, the net effect is that Kim and Kim alone made the decision. That's all that matters. Putting imaginary words in other people's mouths especially when you're not there is just pure cookoo.

I would assume that China was ok with this but as you insist. Regarding putting imaginary "sent to him room without supper" conjecture into it I agree but it is you saying Kim is Xi's obedient vassal. We do not know. And that should be scary.

Your continue usage of Trumpkin belays that you lack any professionalism. The main effect is China slapping Kim down. And in case you haven't noticed, Trump has not reverse his tarrif position.

You think the current US President is a professional? A professional crook? Molester? Not sure 'professionals' of that nature deserve our respect. And by the way I left the UK diplomatic service and had not started Uni when '9/11' happened. I am part of the next generation. We still actually fight the Muscovites - something you have never done except by accident almost.

It was played out by the Chinese rubbing to KJU's face that he came kowtowing to the Chinese Emperor Xi. Whether he meant it or not, the message was clear, Kim came to kowtow before Xi and he said as much.
He was getting his instructions. Period.

Sir yes in a way you have to be right; NK needs China more than the other way around. China to their credit did enforce some sanctions on NK I heard for all the nuclear posturing. Then Trumpkin put tarriffs on China. Then the lesser and greater dictators met. Then a reactor started again. Now we watch I suggest.

Yeah, you are with foreign service. Sure. You lack the habbits that make your claim true. Looking at real time intel.

Sadly not any longer as I mentioned above. Still prefer history books though. Not sure what my personal preferences of learning matter in this debate - about as much as your 'Horse Puckey' rubbish. It does not impress me Colonel. I have been shouted at by far meaner and more professional people than you in my life. It never stopped me fighting the enemy or the ignorance of those who did not understand they were at war. There were many who warned before I but if you do not accept that you at war now you are blind. Therefore be wise to all the guile of enemy at all points. What will you do Colonel? Sit in Canada in well deserved retirement and from personal pique critisise those who act? Deride their country and hope we kill each other? If you cannot see that this war is not only a Ukrainian - Muscovite business, as I said from the start it was not, then it is not me missing the headlines but you who are not reading the script.

God go with you Colonel.

[hboGYT]

I advised the Ukraine? You're smoking too much rock. I was discussing military scenarios with the military members here. At no time did Kiev asked for my advice and I'm not stupid enough to advise them without knowing the ground.

Yes, because Xi and Kim told us.

Why should I care about something that has nothing to do with what Xi and Kim had said?

The money he shells out for silence and scapegoats? I will be very comfortable.

How do you rate Trump's intellect?

[Officer of Engineers]

You don't even read your own freaking links

Ahead of Trump summit, new activity at North Korea nuke site

Satellite imagery taken last month suggests the North has begun preliminary testing of an experimental light water reactor and possibly brought another reactor online at its Yongbyon Nuclear Research Center.

The decision was made WELL BEFORE KJU LEFT FOR CHINA!

[Officer of Engineers]

Mariupol is a fortress. It does not require 10,000 manning it when it can be easily bypassed as they tried to do. I do not recall mentioning Donbass in the same context.

Oh freaking god! 10,000 men is a division. You cannot leave an entire division in your rear that can cut your supply lines. Leaving a division in that fortress will tie down an entire army to protect the LOC. In other words, 10,000 men just stopped 30,000 men from marching on Kiev and actually requiring Russia to commit real Russian armies and not just HQs to the fight. Something that they're unwilling to do.

But you're lost in such things and I'm freaking tired of explaining military thinking to someone who refuses to learn.

Completed the Thailand Oplot deal recently but are you sure it is not because of your stated desire that ""I want them to kill each other". See how that might not entirely engender my respect?

I don't need or want your respect. What I demand is you stop being the idiot know it all when we keep proving you wrong.

Hell we lost one member of this forum. You got your wish.

And she died for her country and with honour. Do I want you to keep killing Russians? If by your words that the west is at war, then the more you kill, the less we have to. However, your war is for you to fight. We have no say in it.

Powell certainly called London, so did Bush. It is on the record there.

NOT ASKING FOR ARTICLE 5!

They signed off on it or would not have happened. Face the truth.The other allies were not about to chase off to Afghanistan without the US. So to say it had nothing to do with the US is entirely misleading.

For freak sakes, you have a problem with plain old English? The Americans DID NOT asked for ARTICLE 5 and Afghanistan was NOT a NATO mission until three years in. Eurocorps insulted the Canadians by rejecting 3 PPCLI and asking for 300 engineers instead. The Americans tooked 3 PPCLI with 187th BCT instead. These were NOT NATO Commands.

No it was not fired before but not what I asked.

Oh for Pete sakes, what part of it takes days to fire up a reactor do you NOT understand. By the time we detected the activity, the reactor was running for days to get hot enough before we can detect it or is simple facts too hard for you?

Was it discussed do you think? Is this the third time?

I answered you! Xi was NOT consulted before hand and since the reactor was not cooled, the net effect is that Kim and Kim alone made the decision. That's all that matters. Putting imaginary words in other people's mouths especially when you're not there is just pure cookoo.

Actually I did but perhaps you missed it: "I wonder how much this meeting was helped by Trumpkins announcement of a trade war with China? I mean seriously could he not wait to cause a rift with China until after his grandstanding with the smaller dictator?

Your continue usage of Trumpkin belays that you lack any professionalism. The main effect is China slapping Kim down. And in case you haven't noticed, Trump has not reverse his tarrif position.

As for "moral obligations" in the mouth of a dictator the words have no meaning.

It was played out by the Chinese rubbing to KJU's face that he came kowtowing to the Chinese Emperor Xi. Whether he meant it or not, the message was clear, Kim came to kowtow before Xi and he said as much.

Very likely on the "getting my ok first". But again does not explain the renewed activity unless there is some renewed agreement with China.

He was getting his instructions. Period.

When I have time to read I prefer to read books; mostly history books. You can take them with you.

Yeah, you are with foreign service. Sure. You lack the habbits that make your claim true. Looking at real time intel.

"Horse Puckey" stage reached.

It never left.

[snapper]

What a load of horse puckey! I was not the one who decided on Mariupol. Kiev did. You then spouted off some lunacy about repeating Donbass and how Mariupol would be isolated again. I told you why Mariupol is an extremely good fortress and that Russian armies cannot bypass them.

Mariupol is a fortress. It does not require 10,000 manning it when it can be easily bypassed as they tried to do. I do not recall mentioning Donbass in the same context.

As for weapons systems, I am still against NATO supplying you any, mainly because I know they would fall into Russian hands as did our counter artillery fire controls. However, Ukraines was a world class weapons producer and I listed all the systems that you should have but don't. That's not our fault. You still have not gotten your ATGM production lines back up.

Completed the Thailand Oplot deal recently but are you sure it is not because of your stated desire that ""I want them to kill each other". See how that might not entirely engender my respect? Hell we lost one member of this forum. You got your wish.

Yeah, Colin Powell signed off on ARTICLE 5 BUT HE NEVER ASKED FOR IT. NO AMERICAN DID. NOT EVEN GEORGE BUSH! I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ME ONE SINGLE AMERICAN WHO ASKED FOR ARTICLE 5! FIND HIM! THE AMERICANS NEVER ASKED FOR ARTICLE 5! How much more black and white can that be! Colin Powell even thanked the Allies for invoking the ARTICLE 5 on the US's behalf! But if you think that Collin Powell was spending his time calling the various capitals for ARTICLE 5 support, you're cookoo!

Powell certainly called London, so did Bush. It is on the record there. They signed off on it or would not have happened. Face the truth.The other allies were not about to chase off to Afghanistan without the US. So to say it had nothing to do with the US is entirely misleading.

God, you are freaking dense! The reactor was fired up BEFORE KJU left for China. So, NO! Xi was NOT part of the decision to fire it up.

No it was not fired before but not what I asked. Was it discussed do you think? Is this the third time?

Did the US trade tarrifs had an effect? Maybe but you never raised that point. As for kowtowing, Kim's words "Solemn duty" and "Moral obligation" to visit China. That's a vassal king on his way to perform his functions to the Chinese Emperor.

Actually I did but perhaps you missed it: "I wonder how much this meeting was helped by Trumpkins announcement of a trade war with China? I mean seriously could he not wait to cause a rift with China until after his grandstanding with the smaller dictator?
As for "moral obligations" in the mouth of a dictator the words have no meaning.

And here are Xi's words. "China will continue to play a constructive role on the issue (of talks) and work with all parties, including the DPRK, toward the thaw of the situation on the Peninsula," Xinhua reported. China will continue to play a constructive role. This upcoming meet between Moon and Kim and then between Trump and Kim bypassed China by accident. No one expected Moon and Trump to call Kim's bluff. Xi summoned Kim to tell him point blank you make no deals without passing it through me!

Very likely on the "getting my ok first". But again does not explain the renewed activity unless there is some renewed agreement with China.

If you would have followed my suggestion and read the news, you would have gotten even a gist of it but no, you had to show your ignorance.

When I have time to read I prefer to read books; mostly history books. You can take them with you.


"Horse Puckey" stage reached.

[Officer of Engineers]

"I want them to kill each other" and advocating Grozny x more plus without knowing anything about Ukraine - and telling us all that Ukraine didn't need newer weapons systems - when now you claim to never have a known much about Ukraine.... and I should listen to your "kowtowing" theory - and yea sure Kim told you all about it - and not what happened subsequent re the re-activitisation of a reactor? I will still stick to theorising on the facts. It's just the same BS as the US never had anything with article 5 in 2001, except that Colin Powell both signed off on it.

Look I do not have time for your arguments and I apologise if you dislike my views but is there no room at all for the possibility of 'coincidence' in the the new US trade tariffs aimed at, the meeting in China and the subsequent renewed nuclear activity after the mini me got home? I am not saying this to prove a point against you or anyone else. I merely raise the possibility that these matters may have a connection and if so I wonder if the US is in as strong as a position as some here seem to believe.

I wish you well Colonel but decline to respond again. Sadly I have a whole pile of stuff to go through.

What a load of horse puckey! I was not the one who decided on Mariupol. Kiev did. You then spouted off some lunacy about repeating Donbass and how Mariupol would be isolated again. I told you why Mariupol is an extremely good fortress and that Russian armies cannot bypass them.

As for weapons systems, I am still against NATO supplying you any, mainly because I know they would fall into Russian hands as did our counter artillery fire controls. However, Ukraines was a world class weapons producer and I listed all the systems that you should have but don't. That's not our fault. You still have not gotten your ATGM production lines back up.

Yeah, Colin Powell signed off on ARTICLE 5 BUT HE NEVER ASKED FOR IT. NO AMERICAN DID. NOT EVEN GEORGE BUSH! I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ME ONE SINGLE AMERICAN WHO ASKED FOR ARTICLE 5! FIND HIM! THE AMERICANS NEVER ASKED FOR ARTICLE 5! How much more black and white can that be! Colin Powell even thanked the Allies for invoking the ARTICLE 5 on the US's behalf! But if you think that Collin Powell was spending his time calling the various capitals for ARTICLE 5 support, you're cookoo!

God, you are freaking dense! The reactor was fired up BEFORE KJU left for China. So, NO! Xi was NOT part of the decision to fire it up.

Did the US trade tarrifs had an effect? Maybe but you never raised that point. As for kowtowing, Kim's words "Solemn duty" and "Moral obligation" to visit China. That's a vassal king on his way to perform his functions to the Chinese Emperor.

And here are Xi's words. "China will continue to play a constructive role on the issue (of talks) and work with all parties, including the DPRK, toward the thaw of the situation on the Peninsula," Xinhua reported. China will continue to play a constructive role. This upcoming meet between Moon and Kim and then between Trump and Kim bypassed China by accident. No one expected Moon and Trump to call Kim's bluff. Xi summoned Kim to tell him point blank you make no deals without passing it through me!

If you would have followed my suggestion and read the news, you would have gotten even a gist of it but no, you had to show your ignorance.