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Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I find think tankers quite enamoured with the idea.
    You mean Indian think tankers. I have not noticed anyone other than Indian think tanks, including India's MOD, are talking about Indians in command of Australian, American, nor Japanese assets or vice versa.
    Chimo

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    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      You mean Indian think tankers.
      The idea of quad was from Abe back in 2007.

      My recent comment to you on quad was inspired by Dr. John Lee from Hudson Institute in a recent discussion.

      First noticed Lee in this video eloquently make the case for free & open Indo-Pacific. He was formerly in the Aussie MOD. Security adviser to the foreign minister.



      He mentions quad here as a diplomatic platform.

      Countries overtly say what concerns them. Getting more countries to do that.

      Takes away diplomatic cover for China when more countries stand up and take one for the team like your country & recently Oz.

      Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      I have not noticed anyone other than Indian think tanks, including India's MOD, are talking about Indians in command of Australian, American, nor Japanese assets or vice versa.
      I've not heard anyone mention this. Where did you see it ?

      Quad & indo pacific compliment each other.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Jul 20,, 00:25.

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      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
        I've not heard anyone mention this. Where did you see it ?
        Coalition Warfare 101. Neither Japan nor Australia is capable of embarking a campgaign on their own. They need C4ISR assets that only the Americans can provide. Hence, why NATO, ANZUS, and Japanese military personel have served as 2ICs on American assets. For India to count on Japan or Australia, she must provide the C4ISR assets. Not going to happen because

        a) India will not allow Foriegners into their NCA
        b) India does not meet C4ISR standards the Aussies and the Japanese are currently enjoying.

        To meet those standards, India must open up everything to American modernization standards and that is just too expensive. Or she can submit to American leadership and use her C4ISR assets.
        Chimo

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
          This may be one of those cases where the Chinese government pays a bunch of money through cutouts to endow a given position, on condition that the cutouts have a say in who gets appointed. Some of that money goes to the foundation, and some of it goes to pay her salary and benefits. And the foundation gets a free talking head who raises the profile of the organization by talking to reporters, issuing position papers, et al. Basically, it's a lobby for foreign countries whose position papers and pronouncements Democrats can use to provide cover for policies that cater to foreign interests. Here's the Wikipedia blurb on the freelance cutout that issues her paychecks, the Stimson Center:
          Hmmmm, you're correct. Should have read this page before I searched for the communist troll Yun Sun.

          Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
          The US has essentially unlimited resources because it has the biggest economy in the world. It can size its military budget to match potential adversary capabilities. India doesn't. It has to budget for projected adversary intentions. Up until now, it was assumed by GOI that China had no intention of encroaching upon Indian territory - that its current objective was to cement its claim to the South China Sea and perhaps acquire Taiwan. Has that GOI assessment changed? That is what will drive GOI defense procurement in the next several years.
          I hope it does.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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          • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
            Coalition Warfare 101. Neither Japan nor Australia is capable of embarking a campgaign on their own. They need C4ISR assets that only the Americans can provide. Hence, why NATO, ANZUS, and Japanese military personel have served as 2ICs on American assets. For India to count on Japan or Australia, she must provide the C4ISR assets. Not going to happen because

            a) India will not allow Foriegners into their NCA
            b) India does not meet C4ISR standards the Aussies and the Japanese are currently enjoying.

            To meet those standards, India must open up everything to American modernization standards and that is just too expensive. Or she can submit to American leadership and use her C4ISR assets.
            Oh my god. Will you please stop saying that? It's not happening even if WWIII starts.

            DE, QUAD is an opinion piece as of now. It's a fun event where ministers from 4 countries meet and exchange face-to-face greetings with taxpayers money.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • Don't know where this is, but a PLA soldier seems injured.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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              • Wion banned in China, lol.
                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  Oh my god. Will you please stop saying that? It's not happening even if WWIII starts.
                  You keep spouting 118 SHORNETS or American weapons this or American weapons that. Do you actually understand what it entails to truly render American weapons systems effective?

                  American weapons are designed for American ways of war. India does not have the money to buy the whole thing lock, stock, and barrel. To use American bought weapons to its full potential, you will need American C4ISR. If you cannot buy it, you will have to borrow it ... and all that it means.
                  Chimo

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    Wion banned in China, lol.
                    China blocks access to WION website after India bans 59 Chinese apps | WION | Jul 02 2020

                    I've often wondered why FOX never made it to India. All Rupert Murdoch wanted to do was Star movies out of HK.

                    It's obvious these days why.

                    FOX would not be able to compete in the Indian market. We have many FOX like channels already : D

                    WION's youtube subscribers used to hover under the half million mark before the pandemic began.

                    They tripled since.

                    The media landscape is inverted here comapared with the west.

                    Their channels are more NDTV like and FOX is the exception.

                    In India 6 years into the Modi govt. NDTV is the exception.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Jul 20,, 09:00.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                      Coalition Warfare 101. Neither Japan nor Australia is capable of embarking a campgaign on their own. They need C4ISR assets that only the Americans can provide. Hence, why NATO, ANZUS, and Japanese military personel have served as 2ICs on American assets. For India to count on Japan or Australia, she must provide the C4ISR assets. Not going to happen because

                      a) India will not allow Foriegners into their NCA
                      b) India does not meet C4ISR standards the Aussies and the Japanese are currently enjoying.

                      To meet those standards, India must open up everything to American modernization standards and that is just too expensive. Or she can submit to American leadership and use her C4ISR assets.
                      Very good but please tell me where you read about 'Indians in command of Australian, American, nor Japanese assets or vice versa'.

                      India is quite far off from that degree of inter-operability. We have yet to figure out a way to integrate communications with the US coalition. Let alone do more.

                      India is still in the platform centric warfare model. We've yet to move to network centric.

                      Notice the defence minister recently paid a visit to Moscow not DC. He wants to ensure arms supply in case things go south.

                      There are three outcomes possible

                      - we have a soonish resolution

                      - a drawn out one taking many months

                      - the baloon goes up and we gear up

                      Either way we are preparing for a war.
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Jul 20,, 09:09.

                      Comment




                      • Short take from the former foreign secretary

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                        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          Very good but please tell me where you read about 'Indians in command of Australian, American, nor Japanese assets or vice versa'.
                          That is like saying where did I read Australians or Japanese would drink have to Indian water if they were to fight over the Himalayas. The point remained that the Australians and the Japanese MUST fight in a Coalition. They don't have the C4ISR assets to fight on their own. You do know what C4ISR stands for. Command-Control-Communications-Computers-Intelligence-Surveillance-Reconnaisance. Therefore, India would have to supply that or India would have to borrow them from the Americans ... and all that it means.
                          Chimo

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                            You keep spouting 118 SHORNETS or American weapons this or American weapons that. Do you actually understand what it entails to truly render American weapons systems effective?
                            Because Americans weapons are #1. Does Pak has the means to render American weapon systems effective? It's a machine. Our strategies, our aerial warfare tactics coupled with US jets and bombs. That's what the Pak used to shoot down our Mig-21 last year in their airspace. And the PAF have to ration jet fuel to keep their fighters flying.

                            Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                            American weapons are designed for American ways of war. India does not have the money to buy the whole thing lock, stock, and barrel. To use American bought weapons to its full potential, you will need American C4ISR. If you cannot buy it, you will have to borrow it ... and all that it means.
                            Understood.

                            Then we build our own C4ISR. Might take us a decade or 2, but we build it as we grow economically. If we could build nukes under sanctions, we can do it again. We have the human resources, scientists, s/w engineers and every thing that is needed, what we don't have in spades is hard cash. We'll get there too. We are not Britain.

                            India doesn't need to learn American ways of war to take on China or its poodle Pakistan for a decade at least. Indian way is enough for the time being.
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                            • Colonel, when India bough the P-8I, it came without ASW/ASuW missiles. Didn't make much sense then to me as what would a submarine hunter do without missiles, but the concern of the GoI during that time was maritime surveillance. Keeping an eye on PLAAF assets in the IOR. Anway, after some years I read online that India has bought those required missiles. We buy when we have the money to spend. Also, BEL Data Link II Comms allows the P-8I to share tactical data with other Navy aircrafts, ships and shore establishments. So, American weapon talks with Indian system, possibly some Russian too.

                              What I'm trying to say is I don't see the QUAD as being useful. QUAD is a bogeyman to keep the Chinese awake at night.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                              Comment


                              • Era of expansionism is over, says PM Modi from Ladakh
                                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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