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Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

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  • So the def minister talks in Moscow got no where. We iterated our position of status auo ante. They decided to ante up



    Plead for peace and increase their forces.

    50k a side facing each other for a grand total of 100k is what i'm hearing now.

    Gen Ashwani Siwach repeated Shiv's claim that we've taken Black Top & Helmet Top.

    This means we've done a Doklam to them again.

    When will Nitin acknowledge it.

    Comment


    • Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Situation not at all good at the LAC. If this doesn't get resolved within this month, I'm afraid there will be a shooting contest, as temperatures will start dropping starting October in the Himalayas, and also along the NE Indian states.[
        Do the US elections have any influence here ?

        Will they do it when Trump is in office.

        Trump gets a second term they are going to face more of the same.

        Biden wins they get a reprieve and focus shifts to Russia.

        Comment


        • Wondering what was keeping AIM. Here we go.

          He's echoing Nitin. We've not crossed the LAC. We've just occupied heights which we had not done before.

          We've not grabbed any Chinese territory so ignore what Western Theatre Command is saying.

          How disappointing ! the odd few times they complain about us we can't even celebrate but have to disregard.

          How long will this goodie two shoes act continue ?

          This means China still controls Black top.

          We control the height overlooking Helmet top which gives us a view of the Northern shore of Pangong.

          Rechin La & Gurung hill have a view of Spangur and the valley leading to Pangong.

          We've destroyed any element of surprise the Chinese had in the area prior to last week end.

          They will not be making any more land grabs in this area.

          We've done a Kargil on them. Unlike Kargil we won't be sitting on those tops in the winter because we've mined the area and will surveil the area with drones.

          Losing Tenzin might have had something to do with this operation.

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          Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Sep 20,, 15:20.

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          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

            Do the US elections have any influence here ?

            Will they do it when Trump is in office.

            Trump gets a second term they are going to face more of the same.

            Biden wins they get a reprieve and focus shifts to Russia.
            In between US elections and swearing-in, is the perfect time to do a fait-accompli. Look, Trump getting a second term doesn't mean US coming to fight for us, it just means more pressure for PRC. And if Biden wins, I am not so sure, the FP of US w.r.t China will change. I don't have much confidence on Biden TBH, but I don't have a vote, and my say doesn't matter.

            Why can't US repeat what they did in 1970, this time leaning away Russia from China. What inducements would be needed? There needs to be bi-partisan support for this in US Congress and Senate.
            Last edited by Oracle; 08 Sep 20,, 14:55.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
              Extremely simplistic. 7th Fleet alone can destroy every Chinese Fleet with zero help from anyone. The Americans know it. The Chinese know it. Japan and Australia can handle their respective theatres. What the Japanese and the Australians can do is to help the Americans do the job better and faster but make no mistake, the Americans can do the job alone and do it well.

              India at this point is merely adding a flag and the best thing they can do is to stay out of the way.
              Colonel, JMSDF & RAN have lesser ships than the IN. So what do you mean when you say IN should stay out of the way.

              #1. Naval Doctrine of US, RAN, JMSDF are alike. They are allies, so data-link for secure comms etc are in sync with each other.
              #2. They understand asymmetric warfare better as it is written in their doctrine.
              #3. Western technology.

              And can Japan and Australia really handle their respective theatres versus PRC without US help?
              Last edited by Oracle; 08 Sep 20,, 15:46.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                Extremely simplistic. 7th Fleet alone can destroy every Chinese Fleet with zero help from anyone. The Americans know it. The Chinese know it. Japan and Australia can handle their respective theatres. What the Japanese and the Australians can do is to help the Americans do the job better and faster but make no mistake, the Americans can do the job alone and do it well.

                India at this point is merely adding a flag and the best thing they can do is to stay out of the way.
                According to AIM, unfortunately, that is EXACTLY what India is doing.

                He says we are treating the Quad like some PR vehicle and still clinging to non-alignment.

                And does not think the present govt has the balls to change that position (!)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Oracle View Post

                  In between US elections and swearing-in, is the perfect time to do a fait-accompli. Look, Trump getting a second term doesn't mean US coming to fight for us, it just means more pressure for PRC. And if Biden wins, I am not so sure, the FP of US w.r.t China will change. I don't have much confidence on Biden TBH, but I don't have a vote, and my say doesn't matter.
                  This is what you would think but AIM says 6-8 months ahead when they are more comfortable. Which means next Apr-May. We're not letting our guard down of course.

                  US does not have to come fight for us they can help in other ways. Some one mentioned AWACS & air refuellers.

                  AIM's called a Trump win a month ago already. Does not matter how bad Trump is because Biden will be worse. The American equivalent of RaGa.

                  Biden wants to strengthen relations with allies. Ostensibly undo any damage. But won't call China out.

                  Trump however will toughen his China stance.

                  Should Biden win, for the first two years there won't be much change, its the next two that it will happen.

                  Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  Why can't US repeat what they did in 1970, this time leaning away Russia from China. What inducements would be needed? There needs to be bi-partisan support for this in US Congress and Senate.
                  Don't follow what you mean ?

                  Comment


                  • Situation in Eastern Ladakh | MEA | Sept 08 2020


                    September 08, 2020

                    India, while is committed to disengagement and de-escalating the situation on the LAC, China continues to undertake provocative activities to escalate.

                    At no stage has the Indian Army transgressed across the LAC or resorted to use of any aggressive means, including firing.

                    It is the PLA that has been blatantly violating agreements and carrying out aggressive manoeuvres, while engagement at military, diplomatic and political level is in progress.

                    In the instant case on 07 September 2020, it was the PLA troops who were attempting to close-in with one of our forward positions along the LAC and when dissuaded by own troops, PLA troops fired a few rounds in the air in an attempt to intimidate own troops. However, despite the grave provocation, own troops exercised great restraint and behaved in a mature and responsible manner.

                    The Indian Army is committed to maintaining peace and tranquility, however is also determined to protect national integrity and sovereignty at all costs.

                    The statement by the Western Theatre Command is an attempt to mislead their domestic and international audience.

                    New Delhi
                    September 08, 2020
                    We will not pick any fights but we won't be victims either.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                      According to AIM, unfortunately, that is EXACTLY what India is doing.

                      He says we are treating the Quad like some PR vehicle and still clinging to non-alignment.

                      And does not think the present govt has the balls to change that position (!)
                      Agree with the bold part. Only God knows, why we have such incompetent people in the Government.
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                      Comment


                      • Check out Nitin's map

                        And compare with AIM. There is no Indian post between Helmet Top & Gurung Hill.

                        Helmet Top is in Chinese control.

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                        • This is hilarious if it qualifies as infowar.

                          Is PM Narendra Modi losing control of the Indian military? | CGTN | Sept 08 2020


                          They say we opened fire. Every time i read statements like this i want it to be true and then the Indian govt craps all over it : (

                          Now they're saying we got rogue officers HAHA!

                          Is it really possible for China to control the narrative in the present ?

                          Nobody believes a word they say, we can make up any shit we want and still be credible.

                          But GOI won't do that... >: |
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Sep 20,, 17:21.

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                          • Latest Chinese attempt to circumvent the "No shooting" agreement. Last time they used spiked clubs. Now they have graduated to pole-arms.

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                            Weapons seem to be Guandao's

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                            Last edited by Firestorm; 08 Sep 20,, 18:44.

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                            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              Colonel, JMSDF & RAN have lesser ships than the IN. So what do you mean when you say IN should stay out of the way.

                              #1. Naval Doctrine of US, RAN, JMSDF are alike. They are allies, so data-link for secure comms etc are in sync with each other.
                              #2. They understand asymmetric warfare better as it is written in their doctrine.
                              #3. Western technology.
                              Those are part of it but the main reason is Battle Management. The Chinese will do their damndest to get ships out of position to open a hole for others to penetrate. A destroyer maybe chasing a Chinese sub only to be out of position to not put up an AD screen for incoming air strikes. The destroyer at times must judge which is the bigger threat, the sub or the incoming air strikes. To make those decisions, everyone must know where everyone else is. India is not the integrated. And the Chinese knows it. You can bet that is where they will concentrate their efforts.

                              In such a scenario, at best, a threat will penetrate. At worst, friendly fire as others will attempt to close the penerration.

                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              And can Japan and Australia really handle their respective theatres versus PRC without US help?
                              Japan outguns her immediate oppenant. Australia has the distance to collapse Chinese LOCs.

                              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              Latest Chinese attempt to circumvent the "No shooting" agreement. Last time they used spiked clubs. Now they have graduated to pole-arms.
                              Weapons seem to be Guandao's
                              This is getting ludicrous.

                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                                This is getting ludicrous.
                                HEHE!

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guandao

                                Those guys are martial artists in combat fatigues. We had conscripts now they're throwing martial arts guys at us ?

                                WHERE THE HELL IS THE PLA!

                                By the time of Qing Dynasty the guandao, for the most part, was not actually intended for field use, but was instead used as a tool to test the strength of those who wished to become military officers: weapons of various weights were made, the test composed simply of performing various required maneuvers using such weapons.
                                and another one

                                The guandao is used quite frequently in the martial art of contemporary Wushu derived from the Shaolin or Wudangquan form of martial arts in modern times. According to contemporary Wushu practice, its purpose is more to disarm an opponent and deflect his strikes rather than to attack. To that end, a large veil cloth is attached to the end to dissuade and confuse opponents. However, there is no evidence of this being an authentic depiction of the weapon's historical usage.
                                I'm still not clear whether this weapon was actually used in combat.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Sep 20,, 21:00.

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