Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Double Edge]

Concern over seizure of illegal arms off Myanmar border



Ok, so in future (which can be tomorrow), I'm opening a thread about China's continued terrorism in India's North-East, as well as its support to Terroristan. Name and shame those suckers.

This is about Tibet. Apparently even with full control India is still denying China sovereignty of Tibet. They think we want to split China. So they are raising the Dalai Lama question.

6th Dalai Lama was born in Tawang. Tawang is in Indian hands. Present Dalai Lama says he is a son of India.

What about the next Dalai Lama ? big question where he will come from

China knows any one they appoint isn't going to have traction.

If they want to cause trouble in the NE its because they sense there will also be trouble in Tibet.

Whether this is Chinese paranoia getting the better of them over any credible Indian designs of Tibet ?



Burma is interesting. They manage to handle both India & China. So it says Chinese are supporting the Arakan army to gain influence in Burma.

Know what the Burmese did in 2015 ? they bombed rebel camps IN China with their jets. This is like the inspiration for Balakote.

What was even more surprising ? Not a peep out of China over this invasion of their sovereignty !!! Posted here some years back.

That year we did something similar in Burma too. Went in with Burma's consent and took out a rebel camp.

This is a part of the world we have good relations with : )

[Double Edge]

Apparently true.

Centre’s nod to tunnel under river Brahmaputra

Took six years to get the channel tunnel built. That is the one under the English channel linking the UK with France.

I'm guessing this one will be faster : P

[Oracle]

Ok, some realism here. Chinese AK47s sells for $200 a copy. As a comparison, a Canadian C8 rifle is $3K. So, the question is at $200 a copy, do you really expect inventory tracking by the manufacturer?

Shouldn't they? What's the use of a $13 trillion economy if they can't keep a track of those, or fetanyl they export/smuggle to the west. That China has been supporting terrorists in NE India is well known for decades. It's way older than Pak sponsored terrorism. And for 50 years, it can't be a coincidence, that Chinese arms find their way to NE terrorist groups. Realism here is that China is not only bogging us down with their military, they are doing it with their proxy Pakistan sponsored terrorism, and also their proxies in Burmese jungles. ULFA chief Paresh Baruah is in China.

American weapons also find their way into the hands of NE terrorists, these come from the battle-field of Afghanistan (WoT), supplied by the ISI. Through Bangladesh, to NE India. Or, through Bangaladesh to Burma, and then to NE India. We are being screwed from all sides.

[Officer of Engineers]

Shouldn't they?

You've just added another $100 to the cost and defeats the purpose of a cheap sale. Bargin basement means basement, not the penthouse.

American weapons also find their way into the hands of NE terrorists, these come from the battle-field of Afghanistan (WoT), supplied by the ISI. Through Bangladesh, to NE India. Or, through Bangaladesh to Burma, and then to NE India. We are being screwed from all sides.

And that's a bad thing? I will let you in on a secret. You need a consistent supply of consistent quality of ammo to get any consistencies in shooting (which is why I never buy Chinese bulk ammo).

If the first round in your mag came from the US, the next round came from Yugoslavia, the third round from China, I will guarrantee you that my groupings would be 3 feet. Give me all 3 rounds from the US and my groupings would drop down to 5 inches.

Rebels, being rebels, don't have the money for that kind of thing. They will beg, borrow, steal anything and everything they can from anywhere, everywhere they can. So the answer to your thing is that you're facing 10 really crap shooters instead of 3 really good ones. Which do you prefer?

[Double Edge]

^ The easy flow of illicit Chinese weapons into Myanmar poses threats to regional security and stability



CHINA is the only permanent member of the UN, that uses 'STATE BACKED' terrorism to further its expansionist, imperialistic foreign policy.

Good summaries by this euro site. Let's take stock of the situation.

See the progress since the early 2000's

Bhutan, ceased to be a sanctuary for NE rebels by 2003. The Bhutanese King led the charge to remove insurgent camps on his land

Then in 2008, Hasina takes over, zero tolerance policy towards NE rebels. Cooperates and continues to do so over a decade now.

After Burma comes along and helps out as well.

Now tell me where is the sanctuary for these rebels ?

Other than China proper all contiguous territory with the NE has been accounted for.

Yeah, maybe there is a surplus of Chinese arms in the black market.

What are they good for if rebels have no where to hide.

[Oracle]

After ban on 59 Chinese apps, government blocks 47 more

[Oracle]

After ban on 59 Chinese apps, 275 more on radar; list includes PubG, Resso

I sent this link to my nephew with a smiley. He plays PUBG 24 hours. :D

Huawei cuts India revenue target by 50%, lays off more than half of the staff

[Oracle]

You've just added another $100 to the cost and defeats the purpose of a cheap sale. Bargin basement means basement, not the penthouse.

So, you are saying if another $100 gets added to the cost, because of tracking and all (s/w,h/w, policing etc), the terrorists will still buy them. But then, there will be some accountability on China. Am I following you correct on this?

And that's a bad thing? I will let you in on a secret. You need a consistent supply of consistent quality of ammo to get any consistencies in shooting (which is why I never buy Chinese bulk ammo).

If the first round in your mag came from the US, the next round came from Yugoslavia, the third round from China, I will guarrantee you that my groupings would be 3 feet. Give me all 3 rounds from the US and my groupings would drop down to 5 inches.

Rebels, being rebels, don't have the money for that kind of thing. They will beg, borrow, steal anything and everything they can from anywhere, everywhere they can. So the answer to your thing is that you're facing 10 really crap shooters instead of 3 really good ones. Which do you prefer?

You have a way with arguments. I prefer 10 crap shooters, shot dead.

But China does spread terrorism as a matter of state policy, and now as I think about it, Pakistan probably copied this strategy from the Chinese playbook. Again, it was probably the Chinese, who lent some brains to those jihadis to use jihadi abdul from Afghanistan in Kashmir. What do you think Colonel?

[looking4NSFS]

This is one way to give China something else to think about vs mountain warfare, although at the rate the PLAN are building warships this COA from India may have already been considered.


Link: https://warontherocks.com/2020/07/in...ina-challenge/

Key paragraphs:

“In a bid to achieve a leading role in the region, India needs to seek more support from regional powers,” opined the Global Times. “Intending to invite Australia to the Malabar drill can be seen as pursuing support from Australia. If New Delhi is bolstered by Canberra, it will help India to expand its influence into the South Pacific via the Strait of Malacca, in line with India’s whole strategic thinking.” (The revelation that China fears India’s aspirations to be the regional hegemon may come as a pleasant surprise in New Delhi).

What turned India’s mind around on the issue? There were whispers of Australia’s Malabar inclusion at the start of the year. However, it appears that recent events in the Himalayas could have been a turning point. India suspects China is moving to claim its territory high in the Himalayas, most recently in Ladakh’s Galwan Valley, where soldiers from both sides engaged in hand-to-hand combat last month, with at least 20 deaths reported. By all accounts, the incident left a deep imprint on New Delhi, with officials realizing the urgency of the need to clearly signal that it is moving to contain China.

[Officer of Engineers]

So, you are saying if another $100 gets added to the cost, because of tracking and all (s/w,h/w, policing etc), the terrorists will still buy them. But then, there will be some accountability on China. Am I following you correct on this?

You are but why would the Chinese do that? Theirs is the civilian market to which tracing is near impossible. Yeah, I sold it to Mr X but why would Mr X notify NORINCO when he sells it to Mr Y?

But China does spread terrorism as a matter of state policy, and now as I think about it, Pakistan probably copied this strategy from the Chinese playbook. Again, it was probably the Chinese, who lent some brains to those jihadis to use jihadi abdul from Afghanistan in Kashmir. What do you think Colonel?

I've seen no intel on that

[Oracle]

You are but why would the Chinese do that? Theirs is the civilian market to which tracing is near impossible. Yeah, I sold it to Mr X but why would Mr X notify NORINCO when he sells it to Mr Y?

Civilian market in China? I thought China and India are alike when it comes to guns for its respective people. Very restrictive.

I've seen no intel on that

I have been reading news related to Chinese arms with NE terrorists verified by sleuths of the Indian Inteligence Agencies for atleast 2 decades now. Naga terrorists received training and arms from Pak and China in the mid 60s and 70s. Paresh Barua is in Yunnan province of China. What more intel is needed.

Btw, what kind of intel are you talking about?

[Oracle]

How the army taught the Chinese a lesson

The battle at Galwan on June 15 illustrated how a well-trained army can most effectively deploy resources and tactics on the run, even as masses of deadly opponents attack it as fast as in a video game.

That night's events ought to be a case study at the finest war colleges. For, the most legendary tacticians in history, from Henry V at Agincourt to Mehmet II at Constantinople, would have been proud to own the tactics employed.

Many of the Chinese troops were from the PLA's Special Forces, the equivalent of the US Marines. And yet the Indian soldiers were able to chase them deep into the Galwan Valley. Indeed half-a-dozen soldiers went so deep that they only found their way back late the next evening.

Early reverses

The country has mainly been told about the first brief phase of that battle, though the entire fighting lasted through most of that night.

That first phase went very badly for the Indians, since the Chinese ambushed them.

During the ambush, the commanding officer of the 16 Bihar regiment, Colonel Santosh Babu, and the 20 soldiers, including two other officers, who had gone with him were brutally assaulted with medieval weapons.

I am told that Colonel Babu was hit on the back of his head and apparently fell into the stream. It was a fatal injury.

I am also told that more than half of the 20 Indian casualties that night took place when that first group was ambushed by a larger number of Chinese armed with bunches of sticks wrapped with barbed wire.

Amazing comeback

The Chinese probably thought that brutal assault was a knock-out, but they had not counted on the ingenuity, loyalty and courage of battle-trained Indian officers and jawans.

Through the next three phases of that night's battle, scores of Indian reinforcements suffered much fewer additional casualties than they apparently imposed on their opponents.

An officer almost as senior as Colonel Babu had shadowed the lead team with a small team of soldiers.

When he saw the ambush from a distance, he promptly called in reinforcements. I am told he then led a bayonet charge which took the fight to another level.

I am told the lieutenant colonel (now a full colonel), was one of the Indian Army's most proficient Ghatak warriors. He certainly earned fresh spurs that night.

Since Ghatak warriors are trained for hand-to-hand combat, he and his men were able to inflict severe damage on their opponents, even after the latter called up substantial reinforcements.

Severely outnumbered

Even after Indian reinforcements arrived to take the battle into its third phase, they were severely outnumbered by the Chinese reinforcements -- ten to one, according to one officer's estimate.

Yet, they went into the fight ferociously, proving equal to the larger numbers of Chinese troops.

I am told that most of the reinforcements were from the 3 Medium Artillery Regiment and the 3 Punjab Regiment.

But as word spread that a 'CO saab' had been killed by the Chinese, enraged soldiers of all sorts rushed pell-mell to the battleground.

I am told that two nursing assistants and several signals operators were among those who joined the battle.

The reinforcements fought doughtily. One Gurjit Singh is said to have fought with great prowess, taking down a large number of opponents before he was felled.

PLA officer captured

One of the Chinese looked important. So, later that night, a spirited bunch of soldiers decided to grab him and carry him back.

That chance move took a turn more like a Hollywood thriller the next morning.

When the Chinese commander called up to ask worriedly about him, it turned out that he was the officer in charge of the PLA special forces in Galwan.

I am told PLA special forces had just arrived to take over the Galwan area. Colonel Babu had gone trustingly because he had a good equation with the CO earlier in charge there. Instead, he found the special forces waiting in ambush.

Far more truculent than those who were earlier deployed, they were the ones who used nail-studded maces.

Of course, capturing a special forces officer is a huge feather in any military cap. As one officer exulted: "The catch was definitely prized. Just think (it is like) we get the CO of the (US)Navy Seals."

Two very different Indian officers have told me that that Chinese officer's capture decidedly turned the tide of the battle at Galwan. The Chinese morale nosedived.

Objective achieved

Later that night, a group of Gorkha soldiers joined battle along with a team of engineers who, I am told, wrought havoc of a different sort in the fourth phase of the battle at Galwan, completing the military objective of that night's operation.

After the major setback with which the night began, it is truly commendable that the military objective was achieved amid the fog of war which, in every sense of that term, enveloped that night.

If the government had not chosen to only own the deaths of 20 Indian soldiers, distancing itself from the outstanding displays of prowess on that battlefield, it could have been a tremendous morale-booster at a time when the nation is confused about the government's strategy in response to a strident Chinese challenge.

Indeed, to prevent details from emerging, mobile communications were shut down at the front for a week after the battle, and soldiers's phones were confiscated. The videos some of them had taken of the mayhem on the battlefield by the early morning were not allowed out.

However, some information has spread among other officers, and I have pieced together what happened that night through chats with a couple of mid-ranking officers who have had authentic information from the front.

I hope the officers who led the fight back are duly recognised on Republic Day if not on this Independence Day. The country must acknowledge how valiantly the army fought against great odds that night.

The government, which initially focused on preventing escalation, must re-think how to treat the battle of Galwan in light of the clear evidence that has emerged in the last six weeks that China is in any case intent on escalating hostilities right across the two countries' boundaries.

[Officer of Engineers]

How the army taught the Chinese a lesson

Overblowing things much?

[Oracle]

Overblowing things much?

If you're talking about the headline, then 'clickbait' headline attract local audience. Web portals have to generate revenue afterall.

[Oracle]