Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Double Edge]

Which again comes down to ... more rocks. This outsider sees damned little of use. No trade routes. No minerals. A military committement that can be served by a flyover twice a year and any detection of penetration can easily be countered by causing a landslide (oops).

You see rocks, i'm wondering how to hold on to the spoils.

Can't hold, then why bother to take.

You want to do patrols? Have a whisky war.

As in how many can the other side knock back and still walk in a straight line : D

It does get desperately cold up there.

[kuku]

China claims Bhutan land in its ‘bid to pressure India’

The plan is to irritate us into submission?

[Double Edge]

He needs to do one for the NE

He's also not considering that PO J&K airfields can be used in this video.

Will they build more airfields ? hope there are birds watching

Was surprised to hear that only sorties in the morning were possible.

That will limit what they can do. We have no such limits.

The Chinese? As far as I can tell, they want to use their birds as missile magnets and let the ground base AD net do the real heavy lifting.

Pretty limited options for the PLA AF going by the above video

[Officer of Engineers]

Pretty limited options for the PLA AF going by the above video

He's full of shit! If a full load plane can climb to altitude from lower heights, it can certainly take off with full loads at higher heights. Longer runway lift offs will hurt the engine because of longer burn time. Well, what the hell do you think the plane is using during the entire time of the flight? Rate of climb is reduced? It's the same regardless if the plane takes off from lower heights or higher heights. It's the same damned air. You may have higher initial velocity than the Chinese but the rate is identicle. God, simple physics eludes this idiot. If the runway is long enough, you can fly any time of the day. Period. Tires? So you change tires after every sortie. What do you think carrier aircrafts go through?

THE ONLY THING hindering those bases is the unpredicatable wind.

[Oracle]

India, China agree that differences should not become disputes after key phone call

China says front-line troops taking effective measures to disengage and ease tensions

LAC standoff: Disengagement of troops begins in Galwan; PLA removes tents and temporary structure

Engage, disengage, engage, disengage. These are stupid people. Most stupid. What did they achieve? Militarily, politically, economically? These stupid communists gave us a compelling reason to arm up, and arm quickly with the necessary tools. Build infrastructure in the border areas 4X faster now. Whatever argument the Chinese side gives now or later, I'm sure it came from a chapter called fools dream of the stupid red book.

[Oracle]

“Even if China could defeat and contain India through a war, the pay-off for China would remain minimal because it wouldn’t address China’s key external security challenges in the Pacific,” Sun said. “Instead, a breakdown in ties with New Delhi would only further expose Beijing in its primary theatre vis-à-vis the US.”

Literate 50 centres are very confident. Not her masters in Beijing though.

[Officer of Engineers]

Was surprised to hear that only sorties in the morning were possible.

I can't believe this bullshit. A simple google of LXA departure/arrivals shows there are flights all through the day.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/lxa

I bet I can find the same with the other 4 airports in Tibet. God! I can't believe these "experts."

[Officer of Engineers]

“Even if China could defeat and contain India through a war, the pay-off for China would remain minimal because it wouldn’t address China’s key external security challenges in the Pacific,” Sun said. “Instead, a breakdown in ties with New Delhi would only further expose Beijing in its primary theatre vis-à-vis the US.”

Literate 50 centres are very confident. Not her masters in Beijing though.

Like I said, what do they win? More rocks.

[Oracle]

Like I said, what do they win? More rocks.

Kargil was rocks and mountains too. How many men did we lose to get those heights back? And why did we have to lose those precious men? I will tell you why. Because Pakistan had occupied heights that could choke our supply lines along the Karakoram Highway.

Aren't you aware of the salami-slicing tactics of China? You don't know about Indian position vis-a-vis CPEC that passes though PoK? You don't know every 5 years China lays claims to something new? You don't know all these issues? Why are you looking at it just from a military angle? Why not strategic?

China has 3x firepower than India. How costly will it be for India to dislodge the PLA from occupied heights. You talk as if American forces are positioned in our North-East, ready to obliterate the PLA with more superior firepower. You're not going to convince me of rocks or barren land unless you come up with some strategic thinking. And Sir, that land is still Indian.

[Oracle]

Even if this were true, why would an ex-mil say that?

[Officer of Engineers]

Kargil was rocks and mountains too. How many men did we lose to get those heights back? And why did we have to lose those precious men? I will tell you why. Because Pakistan had occupied heights that could choke our supply lines along the Karakoram Highway.

You've lost those men because Dehli did not have the nerve to cross into Pakistan, cut their LOCs and starve those men out.

The good Brigadier stated precisely that this was the InA's plan. That was countermanded and the InA was left with no choice but the meatgrinder battle.

[Oracle]

You've lost those men because Dehli did not have the nerve to cross into Pakistan, cut their LOCs and starve those men out.

The good Brigadier stated precisely that this was the InA's plan. That was countermanded and the InA was left with no choice but the meatgrinder battle.

Right. So see where I am going with that. We lose more men later.

I appreciate your thoughts and think along those lines too, now. Logistics. But we, as in me and you, do not sit in the Indian PM's chair. India doesn't think along the lines of NATO. Heck, we let our soldiers fight bare hands, whereas a visionary leader would have instructed those men to use guns when attacked even during peacetime, and let diplomacy cool things later.

Do you remember Bangladesh border guards killing several of our men (BSF I guess) some 10 years earlier or something like that? We did nothing. Even 2 years or so back, Bangladesh border guards killed some Indian men in uniform. What did we do? You have to understand the stupid leaders and their thinking that we live with. We have f***s for defence ministers, when we should have at least a 3 star general in that chair.

[Officer of Engineers]

China has 3x firepower than India. How costly will it be for India to dislodge the PLA from occupied heights. You talk as if American forces are positioned in our North-East, ready to obliterate the PLA with more superior firepower. You're not going to convince me of rocks or barren land unless you come up with some strategic thinking. And Sir, that land is still Indian.

During the Cold War, the Sovet Army routinely occupied Chinese territory, not even disputed territory but two to three miles over the border. Chinese airspace was routinely violated 100 miles in. No such terriotrial occupation nor airspace violation is happening today.

The Chinese DID NOT intend to challenge the Soviet Army nor the MiGs at the border. The battlefield was chosen 100 miles into Chinese territory. This was to stretch Soviet LOCs and use geographic strong points to help to contain any Soviet thrust.

In short, don't let stupid idiotic nationalistic pride stand in the way of sound military decisions. Both sides are using kung fu for crying out loud. Good men have died over a tent. If the causalties are to be believe, then it is more than likely that it was the Indians who went on the attack and took the Chinese by surprise. You killed men over a tent. Not a machine gun post. Not a minefield. A freaking tent. There is nothing military sound about any of this.

[Oracle]

During the Cold War, the Sovet Army routinely occupied Chinese territory, not even disputed territory but two to three miles over the border. Chinese airspace was routinely violated 100 miles in. No such terriotrial occupation nor airspace violation is happening today.

The Chinese DID NOT intend to challenge the Soviet Army nor the MiGs at the border. The battlefield was chosen 100 miles into Chinese territory. This was to stretch Soviet LOCs and use geographic strong points to help to contain any Soviet thrust.

In short, don't let stupid idiotic nationalistic pride stand in the way of sound military decisions. Both sides are using kung fu for crying out loud. Good men have died over a tent. If the causalties are to be believe, then it is more than likely that it was the Indians who went on the attack and took the Chinese by surprise. You killed men over a tent. Not a machine gun post. Not a minefield. A freaking tent. There is nothing military sound about any of this.

OMG!

Even if I'm nationalistic, what am I going to do about it? Whine here, and? You, Sir, for all your military acumen, don't seem to understand that we got a pathetic political structure.

Modi Government came to power in 2014 with absolute majority, and among many promises, there was this promise to electrify the whole of India by 2019. That date has been pushed to 2022. We are having power outages of more than 10 times throughout the day. It's Indian summer, and we pay our electricity bills. Sweat rolls down the whole body, and I shower at least 3 times a day. Not enough to counter the heat. Then we have water issues. I get mighty pissed talking about Indian politics.

Grass-root corruption has not decreased by even 1/10th of what it was during the Congress era. Do you now understand what I have to make do with everyday?

Nationalistic my ***. Nationalistic was my angst against ambidex. And all other trolls that join here only to go on a permanent vacation. Being nationalistic increases my bank balance? No it does not. I don't support anyone blindly. I will never support anyone blindly. I will never let my country become another Pakistan or China. And there are 100s of millions like me.

[Double Edge]

You've lost those men because Dehli did not have the nerve to cross into Pakistan, cut their LOCs and starve those men out.

The good Brigadier stated precisely that this was the InA's plan. That was countermanded and the InA was left with no choice but the meatgrinder battle.

That's the military solution. But Kargil was no military win, it was a diplomatic win. We tend to understate this because we do not want to diminish the sacrifices of our braves who fought.

Paks occupied 160 posts on the Kargil ridge, the IA was at best able to dislodge them from 35 - 40, after 3 months and 500 casualties. We lost some helis & jets too.

Now, how did we get them to vacate the remaining 120 ? By painting the Paks as the aggressor and getting Clinton to agree.

By not crossing the LoC we made the case to Clinton who then withdrew support to Nawaz.

Paks had no choice but to walk back because we made it clear if they didn't we would do just as you said.

Another factor that played into this is only a year before we had tested so things were super sensitive at that point.

We didn't let the Generals run the show, we kept options in abeyance.

This marked the warming up of relations between India and the US.

Clinton visited a mere two years after he imposed sanctions. Redeemed himself in his second term after screwing with us in his first with Kashmir.

Am seriously in awe with the foreign policy wins that NDA govt had from '99 to 2004. The path we are on today is because of them.

We rewarded them by throwing them out : (

90s was a critical decade for India , we chucked out a lot of intellectual junk that held us back economically and diplomatically.