Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Officer of Engineers]

No trust which means we keep our guard up.

India must believe threat of war is real, even if Chinese build-up is coercive diplomacy | The Print | Jun 27 2020

I don't know if this is the media being speculative or not. It's almost like they are preparing us for a border skirmish albeit limited.

Walk the talk with Brajesh Mishra | NDTV | May 2003

Ci vis pacem, para bellum.

Hate to tell your pundits, it ain't new.

Edit: But seriously, do you really think China is really serious about a bunch of worthless rocks? The question I'd be asking is what are they really eyeing? I don't know what it is but I do know it ain't Galwan. Galwan is just the distraction/bargining chip.

How do I know this? Let say India retreats. What does the Chinese really have? More rocks. So what are they really eyeing?

[Double Edge]

India is the Castle. China wants India to assume a vassal status. You can see they're trying to do the same to Canada with the Huawei fiasco. It's not about actually taking over India but rather India to adopt friendly Chinese policies. In this case, don't get too cozy with the Americans because there are consequences - namely the US will not come to India's aide.

Ya, we're all dying to see these consequences.

They want China friendly policies when we gave them that already, then they're going to have to give us more India friendly policies than previous.

One India for one China.

Canada has leverage as many CCP have homes there.

Mao saw MacArthur's advance to the Yalu as an existenial threat. Warnings were relayed through India not to advance to the Yalu. Mao was ready to accept an American occupation of Pyongyang but occupation of Yalu's southern river banks were intolerable.

Taiwan is also an existential threat to China. As long as Taiwan remains outside of Beijing's control, China is not whole.

So what is the delay, take over Taiwan already.

[Double Edge]

Ci vis pacem, para bellum.

Have seen Indian army posters saying that

Hate to tell your pundits, it ain't new.

Edit: But seriously, do you really think China is really serious about a bunch of worthless rocks? The question I'd be asking is what are they really eyeing? I don't know what it is but I do know it ain't Galwan. Galwan is just the distraction/bargining chip.

How do I know this? Let say India retreats. What does the Chinese really have? More rocks. So what are they really eyeing?

China has not published the names of their dead soldiers and splashed them over their media.

This means they don't want a fight.

We've told them to clear off our land if they want us to talk to them.

If they want to sit it out we will keep them company for as long as it takes.

They won't tell us what they want, everybody is speculating.

Many of us don't care any more what they want.

But Shekhar is making the point that Op Prakaram was coercive diplomacy which he thinks China is doing here as well.

It did get Mushraf to bend for a while.

[Officer of Engineers]

Many of us don't care any more what they want.

Bad mistake. Knowing what they want means you'd be ready to deny it once they're ready to take it.

[Officer of Engineers]

Canada has leverage as many CCP have homes there.

Did not stop them from taking 2 Canadians hostage in attempt to secure Meng's release and cancelling agricultural contracts worth $billions to force Canada to accept Huawei into their 5G Network.

So what is the delay, take over Taiwan already.

Cost prohibitive.

[Double Edge]

Bad mistake. Knowing what they want means you'd be ready to deny it once they're ready to take it.

We're already doing that now.

What they want is immaterial. Who starts this nonsense in the middle of a pandemic !!!

Seventy years we tried to be friends with these people, Nehru to Modi

Status quo. What they agreed to already. We intend to hold them to it.

I'm told there is no concept of friend in Chinese IR. Vassal or adversary.

This is a bad sign as it means for these people to be great they have to win over all adversaries.

Isn't that how Hitler & Imperial Japan got going ?

[Double Edge]

Did not stop them from taking 2 Canadians hostage in attempt to secure Meng's release and cancelling agricultural contracts worth $billions to force Canada to accept Huawei into their 5G Network.

You're not letting her go without due process

Standing up means some short term pain

I don't know what the status of Huawei's 5G is in Canada but if its in the 5 eyes then the answer will be no.

Surprised there aren't any Canadian companies doing 5G of their own.

Who are the players, Nokia, Samsung & Ericsson.

[Officer of Engineers]

We're already doing that now.

No, you're not. You're doing what they want you to do. Having kung fu fights over a bunch of rocks. Again, what would either side win? A bunch of rocks. It makes zero military sense to start fights here but yet, judo throws and tae kwon do kicks aplenty.

What they want is immaterial. Who starts this nonsense in the middle of a pandemic !!!

Those who sees oppertunity.

Seventy years we tried to be friends with these people, Nehru to Modi

Status quo. What they agreed to already. We intend to hold them to it.

You really need to learn to how and why to read the enemy. Military axiom. Force on weak. When they're ready to take what they want, you won't be there to stop them. You'd be somewhere where they want you to be. Well, I want to be where they want to take. Start asking questions and keep asking them. You may not get any answers and often you won't.

BUT the questions themselves would start forming a pattern. That pattern would lead you to more insights.

You're not letting her go without due process

Standing up means some short term pain

We can't let her go now even if she is innocent. She will deported to the US even when a whole bunch of lawyers are saying the American case is extremely weak. The PMO can legally intervene now saying the deportation would not be legally justified. But since China has taken 2 Canadians hostage, that is extremely a bad precedent that other countries would start kidnapping Canadians just to force Canadian policies. Meng would be handed over to the US to fight her case in their courts and our two Canadians would be metaphorically hanged in China.

I don't know what the status of Huawei's 5G is in Canada but if its in the 5 eyes then the answer will be no.

Two of the big 3 Telcos (BELL CANADA and TELUS) have said no to Huawei. Remaining ROGERS will follow suit or risk losing Canadian Government business. These 3 dictates what goes on in Canada. So, the decision has been taken out of Ottawa's hands.

Surprised there aren't any Canadian companies doing 5G of their own.

Who are the players, Nokia, Samsung & Ericsson.

NORTEL stabbed itself in the foot and became a non-player.

[kuku]

Then it should be even more surprising that it showed up in a Taiwanese daily as Taiwan considers itself the real China ?

They don't seem to have a problem with it.

What about this one

Taiwan is really way away from India China Equation If tomorrow you take away to the Chinese communist government and replace it with whatever strange thing they have going on in Taiwan, we may arrive at the same crossroads (realism).

As far as someone doesn't go and show us killing the Bhutanese Thunder Dragon I am happy.

This is quite likely, given that some jokers were burning effigies of Kim Jong Un instead of Xi Jinping (i would have confused and brought a Stalin effigy to the protest, but hey having voted for Modi and BJP not like I should have anything to say about authoritarians)

[Double Edge]

No, you're not. You're doing what they want you to do. Having kung fu fights over a bunch of rocks. Again, what would either side win? A bunch of rocks. It makes zero military sense to start fights here but yet, judo throws and tae kwon do kicks aplenty.

You really need to learn to how and why to read the enemy. Military axiom. Force on weak. When they're ready to take what they want, you won't be there to stop them. You'd be somewhere where they want you to be. Well, I want to be where they want to take. Start asking questions and keep asking them. You may not get any answers and often you won't.

BUT the questions themselves would start forming a pattern. That pattern would lead you to more insights.

Unless China articulates what they want we will be playing a never ending shell game.

Even if they do articulate what they want we likely aren't going to agree to it.

So we fight over a bunch of rocks until they relent

If they mass troops in an area we mirror it on our side and so on.

Then we have talks to disengage which is both sides go back a certain distance to reduce chances of a clash.

Rinse & repeat.

How else do you deal with people who outright threw out over two decades of agreements.

We don't trust them any more. That is the bottom line.

[kuku]

Does the build-up in Leh & Laddak sector by the PLA give them some advantage?
Does it make it difficult or impossible to retake Askai Chin Area? (well considering they have more men and equipment stationed i guess it does).
Does it make us thin out in the Arunachal sector?

[Double Edge]

We have enough people to throw at this in all three sectors if necessary according to Nitin.

They would like to make it difficult or impossible to take back Aksai HIND, this is what i think they are trying to do.

[Oracle]

Rocks in our own land, is still our own rocks. I know, with the political set-up we have now, our forces will fight to defend those rocks, until we know what the PLA is upto. This is the most sensible thing to do. And when we do know what they're upto, we'll fight them again. And, I am not even talking about getting Aksai Chin or Shaksgam Valley back.

[Oracle]

Unless China articulates what they want we will be playing a never ending shell game.

Even if they do articulate what they want we likely aren't going to agree to it.

So we fight over a bunch of rocks until they relent

If they mass troops in an area we mirror it on our side and so on.

Then we have talks to disengage which is both sides go back a certain distance to reduce chances of a clash.

Rinse & repeat.

How else do you deal with people who outright threw out over two decades of agreements.

We don't trust them any more. That is the bottom line.

We never trusted the Chinese to begin with. Borders had an uneasy calm till 15th June. What the Chinese are doing is a repeat of Kargil.

[Oracle]

We're already doing that now.

What they want is immaterial. Who starts this nonsense in the middle of a pandemic !!!

Seventy years we tried to be friends with these people, Nehru to Modi

Status quo. What they agreed to already. We intend to hold them to it.

I'm told there is no concept of friend in Chinese IR. Vassal or adversary.

This is a bad sign as it means for these people to be great they have to win over all adversaries.

Isn't that how Hitler & Imperial Japan got going ?

I said it earlier somewhere, I'll say it again here now. China is the Nazi Germany of the 21st century. Just wait and watch for some more years.