Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[snapper]

What is this fighting with clubs all about?

[Double Edge]

What is this fighting with clubs all about?

According to joint agreement both sides are not supposed to carry firearms in the area. Physical scuffles ensue at times when patrols complete their tasks which is going up to their designated claim lines.. This one was different the Chinese side was armed with clubs. Read this

What make it egregious is the morning both sides agreed to disengage, when later that evening the Indian patrol went to check the area for compliance there was a brawl that escalated with both sides that went on until midnight.

Both sides have since disengaged from that particular area but what was the need for the brawl to occur and with the medieval weapons used. This part is not clear. What is more clear is there are casualties on both sides as a result.

China isn't declaring any victory. They aren't releasing any casualty numbers. They have no story at all.

The story so far is from the Indian side and as such controls the narrative.

[Double Edge]

What is causing confusion is the opposition charging that unarmed soldiers were sent into danger ? told you they would milk this to the hilt.

The foreign minister clarified all soldiers that leave the post do carry firearms on their patrols, however the agreed protocols of 1996 & 2005 state, they are slung on the shoulders, pointing downwards that is when located within 2 kms of the LAC.

Which then raises the point why were they then not used under adverse circumstances ?? strains credibility that they would not use them when getting attacked with clubs isn't it.

Two reasons, discipline. The other side didn't use theirs either. The second reason is when the melee began it was already dark and it would not be possible to identify fried or foe. So even though they were armed it was not easy to open fire in the confined area of the Galwan valley in the dark.

Sound credible ?

No shots were fired, we're clear on that by either side.

PS: Waning crescent on Jun 15. So not very bright moonlight.

PS2: if you want any better proof that Panag is an opposition hack then listen to his interview with Sunetra that the foreign minister highlighted. Intensely disappointed that a former GOC would behave in this way. How fcuking politicised can things get !!!

[Oracle]

The point is that Vietnam and others may not have the capability to use the BRAHMOS. You're talking about over-the-horizon detection and targetting.

I have news for you. YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CHINESE. Not only are they your neighbours but also an economic powerhouse with money to burn. For a lot of manufacturing, they are the best bang for the buck. An Indian businessman would be an utter fool NOT to use some Chinese products.

In any case, this recent incident tells a very informative situation. This terrain is utterly indefencible. It's just a pissing contest. Nothing more.

Agree with whatever you have said. But to deal with the Chinese, India has to do firstest with mostest, in other words replicating what China has been doing.

[Oracle]

What is causing confusion is the opposition charging that unarmed soldiers were sent into danger ? told you they would milk this to the hilt.

The foreign minister clarified all soldiers that leave the post do carry firearms on their patrols, however the agreed protocols of 1996 & 2005 state, they are slung on the shoulders, pointing downwards that is when located within 2 kms of the LAC.

Which then raises the point why were they then not used under adverse circumstances ?? strains credibility that they would not use them when getting attacked with clubs isn't it.

Two reasons, discipline. The other side didn't use theirs either. The second reason is when the melee began it was already dark and it would not be possible to identify fried or foe. So even though they were armed it was not easy to open fire in the confined area of the Galwan valley in the dark.

Sound credible ?

No shots were fired, we're clear on that by either side.

PS: Waning crescent on Jun 15. So not very bright moonlight.

PS2: if you want any better proof that Panag is an opposition hack then listen to his interview with Sunetra that the foreign minister highlighted. Intensely disappointed that a former GOC would behave in this way. How fcuking politicised can things get !!!

G.S. Panag? Lol, you didn't know? Hehehehe!

[Mithridates]

What if the Chinese do an Arnhem-style air assault behind the wastelands, in the Indian rear? Do they have the capability to resupply and protect a single division from the air? Obviously this would be a major land grab and the potential trigger for at least a big-time local war.

The long term strategy? To build the infrastructure on the captured wastelands for the next phase of a land grab, should Xi Jinping decide to move in that direction. Would it be horrendously expensive? That would depend on the size of the Indian reaction, as well as the current state of the Chinese armed forces.

Conventional force on force engagements can be extremely one-sided if one party has clearly superior capabilities. That was the case in both of the US campaigns against Iraq. The problem for Xi is he won't really know for sure until the rubber meets the road. But he needs to be sure, before he embarks on this quest. Real chicken and egg problem.

[Oracle]

In the face of lack of alternatives, the middleclass will continue to buy Chinese gadgets and the poor in villages will continue to buy cheap goods. The trade deficit with China happens for a reason, it includes goods, which were unaffordable to the poor in the past, I includes active pharma ingredients that India use to make her drugs and dominate the generic drug market, it includes machinery and equipment that India needs to modernize her crumbling infrastructure.

Let the market forces compete to develop Indian technology, as India has shown by being the world player in the Motorcycle industry.

As also the ITES industry.

I was expecting Modi to do that in 2014 just after he won election. Trust me, has India not been so protectionist of its trade policies, MNCs would have flocked to India starting then. Due to Covid-19 and job losses, now the GoI is relaxing labour laws, land acquisition laws etc. It should not take us a pandemic or getting kicked in the ass to do what should have been done in the 90s.

[Double Edge]

Conventional force on force engagements can be extremely one-sided if one party has clearly superior capabilities. That was the case in both of the US campaigns against Iraq. The problem for Xi is he won't really know for sure until the rubber meets the road. But he needs to be sure, before he embarks on this quest. Real chicken and egg problem.

China India isn't the same as US Iraq.

They will be fighting in the mountains not a flat desert. See the WOTR article here for mountain warfare.

The striking side needs a 1:7 to win in the mountains.

We can match them man for man and bullet for bullet.

That 'clearly superior' is going to have to make up for the rest : )

[Oracle]

India plans extra tariffs, trade barriers on 300 imported products: Sources

TikTok sees rising anti-China content in India on border dispute

India-China clash | ‘Ban restaurants selling Chinese foods’: Ramdas Athawale

What? I love Chinese food, and Chinese food in India is Indianised-Chinese food, not the real Chinese food.

[Mithridates]

China India isn't the same as US Iraq.

Nobody really knows until the end of the engagement. It was suggested, prior to Desert Storm, that US casualties might reach 100,000.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...776-story.html

Even if the outcome proved to be similar, nobody *knows* in advance whether it would be India rolling over China.

[Mithridates]

What? I love Chinese food, and Chinese food in India is Indianised-Chinese food, not the real Chinese food.

That would Chinese Chinese food, Indian Chinese food or Singaporean Chinese food? Or do they all seem pretty similar?

[Oracle]

That would Chinese Chinese food, Indian Chinese food or Singaporean Chinese food? Or do they all seem pretty similar?

Indianised Chinese food = Chinese food + Indian spices = yummy!

[Double Edge]

Nobody really knows until the end of the engagement. It was suggested, prior to Desert Storm, that US casualties might reach 100,000.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...776-story.html

Even if the outcome proved to be similar, nobody *knows* in advance whether it would be India rolling over China.

I don't know if India plans to take the fight into Tibet. Things change in that scenario. If the Chinese account of the '86 standoff I posted earlier is true India did plan on extending its borders northward to the Yarlung.

If we are defending we can give them more than a bloody nose.

The only factor in question is staying power.

We'd need to be at it for at least a month.

Nobody is going to deny us arms.

[Oracle]

Hahahahahahahahaha, OMG, now I know why the Modi government wants to talk and talk and talk with the Chinese. We will talk the Chinese to death. LMAO!!! Modi government is a disgrace when it comes to defence.

Army low on stocks of 45 key items, 20 ammo stocks under critical 10(I) level

[Double Edge]

What if the Chinese do an Arnhem-style air assault behind the wastelands, in the Indian rear? Do they have the capability to resupply and protect a single division from the air? Obviously this would be a major land grab and the potential trigger for at least a big-time local war.

The long term strategy? To build the infrastructure on the captured wastelands for the next phase of a land grab, should Xi Jinping decide to move in that direction. Would it be horrendously expensive? That would depend on the size of the Indian reaction, as well as the current state of the Chinese armed forces.

Anybody want to answer this one ?

Watch this and tell me whether you think its feasible