Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[looking4NSFS]

China seems no less interested in settling the line with India than they are in settling the line in the South China sea or settling the line in Hong Kong. I found the article by Ajay Banerjee interesting in that it added to my perspective of the ongoing event.

[Oracle]

China seems no less interested in settling the line with India than they are in settling the line in the South China sea or settling the line in Hong Kong. I found the article by Ajay Banerjee interesting in that it added to my perspective of the ongoing event.

Where is the line in SCS? How does a country draw a line on the high seas? China is in illegal occupation of Indian land (Aksai Chin, Shaksgam valley), as is the case in SCS where they built artificial islands.

China doesn't want to solve the border issues with India, as it uses border issues as a pressure tactic from time to time. This is the time to bomb Chinese fortifications from the area and re-capture our land. We will not back down, come what may. And if the Modi Government has any other ideas, they will not get my vote in 2024.

[Double Edge]

What AIM has been able to gather so far..

So the official version will be out shortly. I’m putting out what I’ve been able to confirm by the 3 man rule.

Yesterday afternoon there was a disengagement meeting. It went well. In the evening 2 patrols went to verify that the disengagement had in fact been carried out. Note this does not reflect LAC claims - each was meant to withdraw 2-3 kilometres back to their permanent outposts.

The first smaller patrol did in fact as speculated in the quoted tweets, come across the Chinese staying put. A fight broke out.. this was on a narrow ledge. The initial Chinese patrol was much bigger & some of our soldiers have been taken.

Within minutes the Indian second patrol joined in to help. Then within 15-20 mins the second Chinese patrol also joined in. Remember this was a precarious trail & by the time both patrols of both countries joined in there was a virtual stampede. This was compounded by the fact the initial deaths meant there was absolutely no backing down for either side. In the end reinforcements were called up. The fight blew up to about 200-300 men.

The bad news is several of our men did fall into the ravine. Having happened at night & with chest deep water recovery operations have been hampered. Also due to their sheer superiority of numbers, part of the ridge collapsed under the weight of the Chinese.

Total casualties on the Chinese side are expected to be around 40-50, significant fatalities given the sheer drop and jagged rocks. Indian fatalities also resulted from pushing off the ridge as indicated earlier in the quoted tweet, our fatality numbers will rise.

Efforts are on to ascertain if the missing are apprehended or fell into the ravine. It’s probably better news if they are in fact hostages.

btw the Chinese CO is also among the Chinese dead. Apparently during the “landslide” or whatever it was that resulted in most of the Chinese casualties

[667medic]

What AIM has been able to gather so far..

If this is how things happened then it is a stupid and senseless loss of life.

BTW, both the pro-Modi and anti-Modi media crowd are having a field time over this incident...

[Double Edge]

It paints the incident in an entirely different light. The deaths were not a direct result of the brawl but rather falling into the ravine.

For both sides.

Initial reports of the CO and two soldiers dead gave the impression the opposite side killed them by direct action. Not quite.

Similar happened in '75. Patrolling on precarious slopes, an altercation takes place and men loose their footing.

Indian opposition always plays football with any incidents on the LAC. Ignore the fools.

[667medic]

It paints the incident in an entirely different light. The deaths were not a direct result of the brawl but rather falling into the ravine.

For both sides.

Initial reports of the CO and two soldiers dead gave the impression the opposite side killed them by direct action. Not quite.

Similar happened in '75. Patrolling on precarious slopes, an altercation takes place and men loose their footing.

Indian opposition always plays football with any incidents on the LAC. Ignore the fools.

Tell that to the gullible public. It is funny how some media personalities are demanding for full 'Truth' when the AAR report is probably still not out as it is a developing situation.....

[Double Edge]

They are demaning 'full truth' because the govt has been tight lipped over this whole affair. This creates space for all sorts of hearsay.

Running official commentary on daily events is counter productive.

Reduces space to manouever and the last thing you want is to give the opposition ammo and they dictate the course of action.

If it becomes necessary the govt will take the opposition into confidence. Hasn't happened yet.



LOL!

[Double Edge]

Xi Jinping tells Chinese army to step up combat readiness as budget rise is blamed on security threats | SCMP | May 26 2020

The Chinese army must step up combat readiness, Chinese President Xi Jinping has said, as the country increases defence spending to tackle “security threats from Taiwan independence forces”.

Defence ministry spokesman Wu Qian said China was facing heightened security threats, especially from Taiwan’s independence-leaning ruling party.

So he said this in May wrt to Taiwan. There is no mention of India whatsoever in this article. And three weeks later after we had a dust up

Yet Indian sources interpret it as against India. Why ?

Are we trying to change the status quo ? No.

We want status quo and will defend if necessary.


Chinese President Xi Jinping gives army its first order of 2019: be ready for battle | SCMP | Jan 05 2019

Chinese President Xi Jinping on Friday ordered the People’s Liberation Army to be ready for battle as the country faces unprecedented risks and challenges.

“All military units must correctly understand major national security and development trends, and strengthen their sense of unexpected hardship, crisis and battle,” he said.

China’s armed forces must “prepare for a comprehensive military struggle from a new starting point”, he said. “Preparation for war and combat must be deepened to ensure an efficient response in times of emergency.”

Xi has consistently pushed the PLA to boost its combat readiness since taking over as president and head of the CMC in late 2012, and that looks set to intensify through 2019.

Guess what, he made the same statement at the beginning of 2019 as well : )

[667medic]

The whole incident was a piece of bad luck and stupidity. I hope that both side now put additional protocols in place after this....

[Double Edge]

The reason they deployed more into the finger area is last October our patrol bypassed the main road from 4 instead went over the mountain to reach finger 7.

This freaked them out as they thought were moving behind their lines and was the trigger for them to move up to finger 4.

Some more to build off this bit.

PLA occupied a sliver of Indian land between fingers 4 to 8, and a few other places as decoys. If they could have kept this land it would push India away from its own borders. But now, it is militarily threatened by the Indians from higher ground, in this terrain of mountain spurs and valleys.

India found a new patrolling route to finger 8 and beyond from its own positions at finger 4 and quickly fortified it. This outflanks the Chinese encamped below, and exposes them to a clear line of Indian fire. India has also effected several intrusions of its own into Chinese territory.

As for the operational aspects of India controlling finger 8 is that it prevents the PLA from mouting attacks on us on the Charlie 1 axis of the southern shore. But if they occupy up to finger 4 and push us back to finger 2 they retain that capability. India cannot prevent them mounting attacks on the southern shore.

The second part is there are approaches from the fingers reaching up to the higher reaches. From Lukung looking north wards. If we control the lower fingers it cuts off any Chinese advance through the Ani La pass through which the LAC passes and is a backdr entrry into the entire area. If push comes to shove the Indian army can encirle the entire chinese presence in the Pangong Tzo area up to the Khurnak fort which is their main base in the area.

The chinese want more depth to their positions which is why they make the claim to finger 4.

[Oracle]

Xi Jinping tells Chinese army to step up combat readiness as budget rise is blamed on security threats | SCMP | May 26 2020



So he said this in May wrt to Taiwan. There is no mention of India whatsoever in this article. And three weeks later after we had a dust up

Yet Indian sources interpret it as against India. Why ?

Are we trying to change the status quo ? No.

We want status quo and will defend if necessary.


Chinese President Xi Jinping gives army its first order of 2019: be ready for battle | SCMP | Jan 05 2019
Guess what, he made the same statement at the beginning of 2019 as well : )

Contracting economy, countless lives lost due to Covid-19 in China, millions of small businesses and people bankrupt, unrest in Hongkong. What better than to falsify claims and stoke up nationalism amongst its subjects against India. Also, the CPC wants to divert the global mood against PRC, towards the hot border along the LAC. It's a diversionary tactic, nothing else. Glad, we did not back down, and our soldiers retaliated in kind. They would not release numbers of their dead, like in 67', as authoritarian regimes never do, or will falsify those numbers like how they did with their GDP for years, and deaths due to Covid-19. We need to thank the Chinese for this, I expect more western tools in our arsenal, and a tilt towards the Quad. Man to man, we can fight the Chinese. Tool to tool, China has an upper hand, but we would close this gap sooner.

China and Pakistan are the 2 worst countries on earth today, and they are in bed together. Take any metric for example - false claims, human rights, any data, ethnic genocide, propaganda warfare, occupying foreign lands, and the list is endless.

[Oracle]

Chinese action violates 1993, 1996, and 2013 border agreements

Defiant China confirms casualties but silent on numbers

China suffered 43 casualties in violent face-off in Galwan Valley, reveal Indian intercepts

Violent face-off in Ladakh result of China's attempt to unilaterally change status quo in region: MEA

[Double Edge]

I expect more western tools in our arsenal, and a tilt towards the Quad. Man to man, we can fight the Chinese. Tool to tool, China has an upper hand, but we would close this gap sooner.

Joke is they want to make claims over many things except the virus : D

Listening around i get the sense that people in India want less to do with China. Earlier there was a similar sentiment and i remember arguing back in 2012 wth a guy here called commander who wanted no more interaction with China unless the border was settled. Against trade. My argument at the time was we should be like Chinas' other neighbours who have territorial disputes but have good commercial relations.

Well, the shift now is to move back to what commander said. How enduring this will be remains to be seen but the sentiment is quite strong.

[Double Edge]

The whole incident was a piece of bad luck and stupidity. I hope that both side now put additional protocols in place after this....

The two nuke powers have decided best way to confront each other is with stone age weapons.

So the effect presently should be to cool things down since both sides lost people.

[Oracle]

Joke is they want to make claims over many things except the virus : D

Listening around i get the sense that people in India want less to do with China. Earlier there was a similar sentiment and i remember arguing back in 2012 wth a guy here called commander who wanted no more interaction with China unless the border was settled. Against trade. My argument at the time was we should be like China neighbours who all have territrial dispites but have good commercial relations.

Well, the shift now is to move back to what commander said. How enduring this will be remains to be seen but the sentiment is quite strong.

I have been saying this since the time I joined WAB. We need to decouple our relations with China and Pakistan, and treat them as such, pariah regimes. We got the manpower, all we need is solid infrastructure, consistent pro business policies and taxation, and a mindset change that businessman steals wealth. Oh, and recognise Taiwan & HongKong as separate countries. We should do the same China+Pakistan combine do to us.