Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Double Edge]

I don't think so. For a deterent to be effective, you have to know about it. No one outside of the CMC and the PLA did, not even Pakistan and it was their territory and more than likely, their army, that were going to be used in this fight.

Not the '86 incident. I mean the standoffs we've had in 2013, 2014 and now. Leaving out 2017.

China does these on purpose to avoid war ? They see us building infrastructure and it negates their advantage.

We know about it because we find them there and won't let our troops complete their patrolling tasks.

In 1993, since we could not agree on where the line should be both sides agreed that their troops would patrol up to their claim lines.

Both sides are transgressing into each others territory. They are not to be stopped. Banners can be used but the troops must complete their taks.

Now and again there is a brawl.

As far as signalling goes two china experts have said this is a very expensive way to do it. Well if that is what it costs to communicate resolve then why not.

[Oracle]

Life and times of the man after whom Galwan river is named

[Oracle]

Colonel, you said China has ~ 230 nukes. SIPRI says 320.

[Double Edge]

Yeah figured this topic would come up again

[Officer of Engineers]

Colonel, you said China has ~ 230 nukes. SIPRI says 320

These are all (including mine) guesstimates. I took the easy way and counted silos and mobile launch sites (5 launch sites per rocket) and the SSBNs the Chinese have. You could easily play with that number and say 3 launch sites per rocket.

I haven't really stay caught up with Chinese nuclear weapons practices. They were using 5 launch sites per mobile launch rocket for surviability reaons. They could have reasonably gone down to 3 launch sites per rocket. Highly doubt that they went down to 2, let alone 1.

There are other ways to play with the numbers. They have enough fissile materials for 400 warheads but I count those as 100 kt warheads but they still have 3-5 rockets with 5-6 megaton warheads. You could easily goto 1000+ warheads if you go down to 10kt yields but I stay with the 100kt warheads because that's what fits in their rockets.

I still stick with my 230 warheads. Just a curious scan through google and through IISS showed me no increase in 2Arty Regiments and the 2nd SSBN is not yet operational.

[Oracle]

India-China standoff: How the situation suddenly aggravated at Line of Actual Control

Anyone knows how many PLA soldiers were killed, designations etc?

[Oracle]

Chinese military suffers casualties in clash with India: Global Times editor



DE, what does Twitter on the Chinese side say?

[Oracle]

What does the notification box say? I got it, when I opened Global Crying Times.

[Double Edge]

Interview with Col. Dinny who commanded a battalion in the area

[Oracle]

Five Chinese soldiers killed in LAC faceoff: Reports

The Chinese media sources have said that huge escalation at the line of actual control (LAC) has resulted in 5 PLA soldiers being killed, while 11 others getting injured. News Line IFE Live tweeted, ''#BreakingNews : Huge escalation by #China. 5 PLA soldiers KIA and 11 injured at #LAC #India china border area yesterday night. Casualties also been reported on Indian side 3 attained martyrdom. But waiting for official confirmation. Tip to remove kid gloves and wear the real one!'

[Double Edge]

What does the notification box say? I got it, when I opened Global Crying Times.

[ATTACH]48712[/ATTACH]

Data parsing failed. i got that too when i opened it but it allowed me to read articles.

[Double Edge]

PLA Western Theater Command urges Indian army to stop provocative action on border | GT | Jun 16 2020

A Chinese military spokesperson said on Tuesday that Indian troops have broke their promises and again crossed the line of actual control in the Galwan Valley region on Monday evening and purposely launched provocative attacks, leading to severe clashes and casualties.

China always owns sovereignty over the Galwan Valley region, and the Indian border defense troops are inconsistent with their words and seriously violated the agreements both countries have reached, the consensus made during the army commander-level talks and harmed the relations of the two militaries and the feelings of the two countries' peoples, said Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Western Theater Command spokesperson colonel Zhang Shuili on Tuesday.

India should stop all provocative actions, meet the Chinese side halfway and come back to the right path of solving disputes through talks, Zhang said.

[Oracle]

Data parsing failed. i got that too when i opened it but it allowed me to read articles.

With China, one can never be too sure. They can never be trusted.

[looking4NSFS]

At 174 years, or more, and counting, if two of the oldest cultures in the world cannot find a permanent solution, hopefully it will not escalate. At the very least, they have more than a century of dealing with this boundary and the delicate dance they are both performing at the top of the world.


Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, June 14

On August 5 last year, when Parliament approved an amendment to Article 370 of the Constitution to carve out Ladakh as a separate Union Territory, China responded with angry statements.

Beijing questioned the “changed status” of the “boundary”, whereas in reality there is no boundary and it never was and largely due to the Chinese, who have rejected every such proposal in 174 years, or since 1846. The Line of Actual Control (LAC) is a kind of loose understanding with several disputes and overlapping claims, especially along the 826 front in Ladakh.

Want peace, not China’s territory, says Gadkari
Since 1846, when the British took over J&K post the first Anglo-Sikh War, an attempt was made to have a boundary and was quickly followed up in 1847. In all, the British proposed boundaries — five separate ones in 1846-47, 1865, 1873, 1899 and 1914, China rejected each of them. Britain got China to send in troops during World War I and II, but the boundary remained undecided.

Major Alexandar Cunnigham, who led the British attempt in 1847 to demarcate the boundary, details this in his 1854 book “Ladakh Physical, Statistical and Geographical”. He narrates “The settlement of this boundary (between Ladakh and Tibet) was of some importance”.

In 1834, the Dogra Army, led by General Zorawar Singh, captured Ladakh. During the Sino-Sikh War (1841–42), the Qing Empire invaded Ladakh, but the Sino-Tibetan army was defeated and “a letter of agreement” was signed in 1842.

Since August last year, China’s foreign affairs ministry has questioned the move on Article 370. At an informal session of the UN Security Council in August 2019, the Chinese Permanent Representative in the UN had argued that India’s decision to abrogate Article 370 challenged China’s sovereign interests and violated bilateral agreements on maintaining peace in the border area. In Ladakh, only two spots along the LAC are disputed.

One is at Trig Heights in the north-eastern edge of Ladakh and the other is Demchok. Besides, both sides carry out patrolling in what they perceive as the boundary — at the northern edge of Pangong Tso, Sppangur Gap, Kongka La, Chumur, Mount Sajun, Hot Springs and Samar Lungpa. However, not a bullet has been fired since November 1962 in Ladakh.

Sequence of events post Independence

1949: Chinese army entered Tibet. Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru issued angry protest, deploring the “invasion” of Tibet.
1950: India unilaterally declared McMahon Line in Arunachal Pradesh as its boundary.
1954: India categorically claimed Aksai Chin as part of its northern border and partially followed the Johnson-Ardagh Line of 1865.
1956: Chinese Claim Line (CCL) is proposed by Beijing.
1958: India discovered China had built a road over the plateau of Aksai Chin, connecting Xinjiang and Tibet.
1959: Tibetan armed uprising failed in Lhasa; Nehru rejected Chou Enlai’s letter in which China complained Indians were overstepping McMahon Line.
1960: China bizarrely expanded its claim on another 5,100 sq km of territory in eastern Ladakh.
1960: Chinese Premier Chou Enlai offered to resolve the dispute on ‘present actualities’. China wanted status quo – India keeps NEFA (now Arunachal Pradesh) while China keeps Aksai Chin – the northeast edge of J&K. This was rejected by India.
Nov 1961: India launched “forward policy” to retain control over territory.
Oct-Nov 1962: India and China go to war.
1967: Nathu la skirmish, 400 Chinese and 65 Indian troops killed.
1975. Four Assam Rifles men get killed after crossing the McMahon line at Tulung la in Arunachal Pradesh.
1986-87: Nine-month stand-off at Sum Drong Chu, Arunchal Pradesh. India launched Operation Falcon.
1988: Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi’s meeting with Deng Xiaoping resulted in another offer. China suggested resolution of Tawang tract. Rajiv Gandhi didn't respond.
September 1993: Agreement signed on “maintenance of peace and tranquility along the LAC” under Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao.
1996: Talk of ‘not disturbing’ settled populations, and in November 1996 agreement signed on confidence-building measures in the military field along the LAC.
2003: Architecture of Special Representatives set up.
2005: Agreement on “modalities for the implementation of confidence building measures (of 1996) in the military field along the LAC”.
2012: Establishment of a “working mechanism for consultation and coordination on India-China border affairs”.
2013: Border defence cooperation agreement signed in Beijing by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
2014: Prime Minister Modi suggested demarcation of LAC on ground. China says let the special representatives (at present Ajit Doval and Wang yi) to resolve it. The talks are going on.

[Double Edge]

At 174 years, or more, and counting, if two of the oldest cultures in the world cannot find a permanent solution, hopefully it will not escalate. At the very least, they have more than a century of dealing with this boundary and the delicate dance they are both performing at the top of the world.

See this

In 1993, since we could not agree on where the line should be both sides agreed that their troops would patrol up to their claim lines.

Both sides are transgressing into each others territory. They are not to be stopped. Banners can be used but the troops must complete their taks.

Now and again there is a brawl.

It all started early May because they would not let us complete our tasks. Violation of the 1993 peace treaty

They are not supposed to bring their big guns to the area. Violation of the 1997 military CBM

And finally we've been after them to settle the line but they are not interested.

We're not backing off.

Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, June 14

Seen Ajay many times on TV programs.