Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Double Edge]

All's quiet on the eastern front : )

Because CCP got enough on their plate right now.

What's interesting is the shift in spin, earlier we'd complain about their transgressions now we're saying we're twice as bad. heh.

In other words we're not bringing up these transgressions any more.

[Officer of Engineers]

In other words we're not bringing up these transgressions any more.

It was never an issue. It was a simple game of moving border marking stones. The Chinese moved it south a few metres. The Indians moved it back a few metres. Both sides had agreed to a patrol schedule that the patrols would never meet and truth be told, at times, it was damned impossible to tell how the stones were moved. Winter snow and ice causing moving soil or by human hands. No one was doing any patrolling during winter months.

The only people who brings this up is the Indian opposition (no matter who was sitting) but both the Chinese and Indian armies had tried to avoid confrontations in this silly game of moving stones.

[Double Edge]

The only people who brings this up is the Indian opposition (no matter who was sitting) but both the Chinese and Indian armies had tried to avoid confrontations in this silly game of moving stones.

It did get brought up quite a bit with the last govt. But it happened also when Xi visited and was with Modi in 2014.

Figure that was Modi's first China test.

It happened also when the premier came over in 2013, last year of the previous administration.

There is usually a link between this happening and the Dalai Lama going to Tawang.

He did in 2012 and in 2017 which some think led to Doklam.

[Double Edge]

The only people who brings this up is the Indian opposition (no matter who was sitting) but both the Chinese and Indian armies had tried to avoid confrontations in this silly game of moving stones.

This Indian opposition angle is interesting and not one i've thought of before. The correlation is partial if we look back over the last ten years.

Ten years ago it was the centre right media raising the China bogie. What was the govt doing, are we doing enough, look at what just happened. The hindu is a centre left newspaper would be more positive which then got interpreted as commie.

Then we enter 2014 and the border clashes of 2013 & 2014 are still fresh. 2014 being when Xi was in India. Media is pretty much on the same page for these two. Then we get into 2016 and leading on up to Doklam. It's apparent relations are coming off the rails.

During the Doklam stand off and post Doklam the centre right papers are in line with the govt.

Come to today and now it is the Hindu picking holes in the story. They don't seem so commie these days.

AIM is calling out the army who said his earlier report was incorrect, specious and intended only to sensationalise.

Indian Army says ThePrint article on Chinese intrusion in Arunachal is incorrect | The Print | Sept 11 2019

AIM is saying the Chinese have built a road one km deep into Arunachal and wonders why the Army is ignoring it.

[Oracle]

[Double Edge]

Posted about that General Sagat Singh earlier in this thread.

There were two in charge of the passes that led to the siliguri corridor.

In the '65 war the Chinese told both to clear off.

One did, the other remained.

[Oracle]

Posted about that General Sagat Singh earlier in this thread.

There were two in charge of the passes that led to the siliguri corridor.

In the '65 war the Chinese told both to clear off.

One did, the other remained.

???

[Double Edge]

???

Two generals. One retreated. One remained. The one who remained is Sagat Singh.

What a difference one man's courage made.

[Oracle]

Who was the other that retreated? And where did you post it? OMG!

[Double Edge]

Who was the other that retreated? And where did you post it? OMG!

Somewhere earlier in this thread. I don't know the name of the one who retreated.

[DOR]

Very interesting stuff, and completely new to me.
India and China fought each other, even on a small scale, at the height of the Cultural Revolution? Never new.

Can’t find anything in Wikipedia on it, either.
Sagat Singh’s entry mentions Goa (end-61) and then skips to Dacca (1971).

India in 1965, and India in 1967, have no mention.

Not doubting you, just puzzled.

[Oracle]

Very interesting stuff, and completely new to me.
India and China fought each other, even on a small scale, at the height of the Cultural Revolution? Never new.

Can’t find anything in Wikipedia on it, either.
Sagat Singh’s entry mentions Goa (end-61) and then skips to Dacca (1971).

India in 1965, and India in 1967, have no mention.

Not doubting you, just puzzled.

From Wikipedia, Nathu La and Cho La clashes

How the U.S. viewed the 1967 Sikkim skirmishes between India and China

The thing is US viewed a democratic India as a counterweight to China even during the 50s. Unfortunately, our leaders at that time were hung over with a farcical weak colonial mindset. Had IAF been used in 1962, things would have been different. Henderson Brooks report was sympathetic to the Chinese, while the Indian account is still classified.

The last Sikkim stand-off: When India gave China a bloody nose in 1967

Remembering the war we forgot: 51 years ago, how India gave China a bloody nose

China should stop ratcheting up 1962, remember 1967 Nathu La battle

I posted these links many times over here for 50 centers who pop up from time to time, to read and learn, rather than believe the usual BS being fed to them by the CPC. 1962 has been avenged in 1967, even if the scale of that war was small. That war dealt a severe blow to the PLA's sense of invincibility. Doklam incident is proof that if the Chinese think they can, they would.

[Oracle]

Somewhere earlier in this thread. I don't know the name of the one who retreated.

Needs to be researched and known, under what circumstances he retreated. If you have any leads, please pass it on.

[Double Edge]

Needs to be researched and known, under what circumstances he retreated. If you have any leads, please pass it on.

Orders from on up as in the Indian military.

Sagat Singh refused to comply at which point he likely would have been informed he was on his own.

[DOR]

some notes

Lt. Gen’l Zhang Guohua led two invasions of Tibet, in 1950 and 1959. He was party secretary of Tibet (1950-52) during a very local power struggle within the PLA, and prior to and during the Cultural Revolution (1965-67). Zhang was also commander of the Tibet Military District (Feb 1952-July 1968) during the 1960s clashes with India, and when the Red Guard tried to bring him down, he just sent in the tanks. Zhang was named Governor of Sichuan shortly after the September 1967 blow-up. At that time, the army was taking over control of all local government in China, to put a lid on the Cultural Revolution. He remained 1st Political Commissar of the Chengdu Military Region (May 1967-Feb 1972) until his death.

Wang Chenghan, who’s listed in Wikipedia as one of the commanders in September 1967, was made deputy commander of the Chengdu Military Region (1973-82), and then commander (1982-85) as well as being a rare Cultural Revolution survivor who became a member of the 12th CCP Central Committee (“). He also seems to be a Korea War vet and may have liberated Western POWs in Shandong in 1945, but it is a pretty common name. Wild guess: he went into teaching in 1985, since he was made a General in Sept 1988, but I find no record of his postings in 1985-88. There is an article he wrote in Sept 1987, “On Coordinated Development of National Defense and the Economy,” in Hong qi [Red flag], a theoretical journal.

Yu Zhiquan, also listed in Wikipedia, was deputy commander in Tibet during the Sept 1967 clashes, but is most noted for being the (poor) army negotiator with the Red Guard in Feb 1968, and the army suppression of radicals (et al) in mid-1968. Beijing decided that wasn’t the right move, and began replacing personnel throughout Chengdu and Tibet.