Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Funtastic]

Did you listen to what Dr. H said ?



Also 4 dams to be built on the yarlung but only Zangmu was built. where are the other 3 ?

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.178...1.77414064t,0r

See the plans from 2003

Hmmm I thought they were supposed to utilising water from the Yangtze not the Brahmaputra.

Playing games with information sharing between rivals is one thing but suggesting the diverting of water for the south north project at the expense for countries downstream and where it is Bangladesh’s only source of water cannot be condoned

So I guess a functioning half completed project is better than nothing.

[Funtastic]

RELAX: CHINA'S FIRST AIRCRAFT CARRIER IS A PIECE OF JUNK

A bit of comparison.

A rather dated article and also poorly written and researched where they can’t even get the name of the carrier right.
They acknowledge it’
s only going to be a training carrier and then proceed to outline it’s weaknesses as a combat carrier.
Meanwhile India has its problems with its own domestically built carrier.

"............The first homemade Indian carrier, the INS Vikrant, has fallen short of expectations. An Indian state audit, released in July, found serious faults in its design and construction, from gear boxes to jet launching systems and air conditioning units.

The shipyard building the carrier, which has already cost $3 billion, “had no previous experience of warship construction” and is five years behind schedule, the audit said. India’s military sticks by its 2018 deadline.

Other experts said the ship’s hull was built before the navy had decided on some of the weapons systems, likely hampering its eventual performance. India’s homemade Tejas jet fighters, which are slated to fly from the Vikrant alongside squadrons of Russian jets, are also struggling to take off and land with an adequate payload on a simulated flight deck where they are being tested, people familiar with its testing said.

The upshot, these experts say: the carrier’s defensive flaws make it unlikely to able to operate in important theaters like the Persian Gulf or off the eastern coast of Africa, outside of the protective range of India’s land-based air force………….."


http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016...d-up-navy.html

[Funtastic]

Meanwhile its speculated that Chinas second indiginous carrier may take this pathway,

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplo...ystem#comments

".......But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.

According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.
“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,” the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the South China Morning Post.
The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current


A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development, military sources said.

The development of the integrated propulsion system (IPS) would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.
China’s first two carriers, the Liaoning and its sister ship, the Type 001A, are conventionally powered vessels equipped with Soviet-designed ski-jump launch systems.
But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.

According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.
“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,” the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the South China Morning Post.
The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current.





A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development........
The development of the integrated propulsion system (IPS) would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.
China’s first two carriers, the Liaoning and its sister ship, the Type 001A, are conventionally powered vessels equipped with Soviet-designed ski-jump launch systems.
But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.
Carrier 001A was seen in Dalian Photo: Weibo
According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.
“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,” the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the South China Morning Post.
The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current.
A comparison of two China’s home-grown carriers

1471SHARE


A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development,

The development of the integrated propulsion system (IPS) would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.
China’s first two carriers, the Liaoning and its sister ship, the Type 001A, are conventionally powered vessels equipped with Soviet-designed ski-jump launch systems.
But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.
Carrier 001A was seen in Dalian Photo: Weibo
According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.
“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,” the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the South China Morning Post.
The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current.
A comparison of two China’s home-grown carriers
s a result, the CMC, which is chaired by President Xi Jinping, has said the development of the Type 002, which had long been delayed, would get under way “soon”, the source said.
Wang Ping, an expert in military technology at the Institute of Electrical Engineering under the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, said the innovative design meant that high-energy consuming launch systems and weapons could now be used on a vessel driven by conventional power.....................

The use of new power systems on the Type 002 is in line with the goals set out in Xi’s work report delivered at last month’s national Communist Party congress that China’s military should modernise by 2035 and become a top-ranked force by 2050........"

[Oracle]

A rather dated article and also poorly written and researched where they can’t even get the name of the carrier right.
They acknowledge it’
s only going to be a training carrier and then proceed to outline it’s weaknesses as a combat carrier.

How about floating casino for a name? It was bought for that purpose right? And anything that's not in Chinese comfort zone is dated and poorly researched?

Meanwhile India has its problems with its own domestically built carrier.

"............The first homemade Indian carrier, the INS Vikrant, has fallen short of expectations. An Indian state audit, released in July, found serious faults in its design and construction, from gear boxes to jet launching systems and air conditioning units.

The shipyard building the carrier, which has already cost $3 billion, “had no previous experience of warship construction” and is five years behind schedule, the audit said. India’s military sticks by its 2018 deadline.

Other experts said the ship’s hull was built before the navy had decided on some of the weapons systems, likely hampering its eventual performance. India’s homemade Tejas jet fighters, which are slated to fly from the Vikrant alongside squadrons of Russian jets, are also struggling to take off and land with an adequate payload on a simulated flight deck where they are being tested, people familiar with its testing said.

The upshot, these experts say: the carrier’s defensive flaws make it unlikely to able to operate in important theaters like the Persian Gulf or off the eastern coast of Africa, outside of the protective range of India’s land-based air force………….."


http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016...d-up-navy.html

You should have posted the full article. US naval engineers are helping rectify the flaws and work is in progress. US technical expertise and technology is on offer too.

[Funtastic]

How about floating casino for a name? It was bought for that purpose right? And anything that's not in Chinese comfort zone is dated and poorly researched?



You should have posted the full article. US naval engineers are helping rectify the flaws and work is in progress. US technical expertise and technology is on offer too.

Yes and I could have included disparaging remarks made by the same helpers.If your designers had any competency those mistakes should not have been made . Indias had more experience operating and maintining carriers right.
but maybe theyre there to ensure you dont accidentally sink it. India and the Indian navy have one thing in common,=== accidentally bumping into things or sinking ROFL

Look at the date, Chinas defence and research isnt eaxtly standing still, there newer and more options avaliabe.

are you sore that china is on the verge of having emals and indias still mucking around with an antiquated system

[Oracle]

Yes and I could have included disparaging remarks made by the same helpers.If your designers had any competency those mistakes should not have been made . Indias had more experience operating and maintining carriers right.
but maybe theyre there to ensure you dont accidentally sink it. India and the Indian navy have one thing in common,=== accidentally bumping into things or sinking ROFL

Operating carriers and designing one are entirely two different things. Which is why US help is there to fix those before it set sails.

Look at the date, Chinas defence and research isnt eaxtly standing still, there newer and more options avaliabe.

are you sore that china is on the verge of having emals and indias still mucking around with an antiquated system

I am not sore at anything. Russian Navy as of now is of the 90s and PLAN 2 decades behind the Russians. This has been discussed and debated here before. Try to read previous threads instead of high-school level trolling all the time.

[Oracle]

I suggest you search this forum for the Late Good Capt (N) DesertSWO's post. His posts would give you detailed insight on the shortcomings of Soviet designs and that's exactly what the Chinese carriers are, Soviet designs.

Among the things to look for, fire extinquishers where there should be fire hydrants (red pipes). Actually, the lack of red pipes is astounding and that cannot be retrofitted. Not without redesigning the ship hull and wiring and piping. Western ship design have historical experience that cannot be replicated by reading books. Failure taught important lessons that was put into later designs, most notably, the failure of thin hulls (so that the anti-ship missile would do a through and through) during the Falklands War.

As a result, damage control starts with the initial designs just as important hull and propalsion and not as an afterthought. Soviet ships deals with damage control as an afterthought. Primary attention was given to weapons.

Western ships are expected to take a hit and stay in the fight. Not so with the LIAONING. She's not designed to receive an incoming distressed bird while having a full aircraft compliment on deck. Western carriers would clear the flight deck in such an emergencies in case the incoming bird is going to burst into a fireball and tear into other birds on deck. There's no place for the LIAONING birds to go if there's an incoming distressed bird.

Yes, I will read up the Late Captains' posts. That US experience is helping IN build up her future carriers. Hopefully it becomes a potent force after the USN in the Indo-Pacific region.

I understand PLAN has no chance against the USN, not even the Japs outside their shores, but in terms of technology like radars, sonars, ASMs etc how does the PLAN stand as of now vis-a-vis IN.

[Funtastic]

Operating carriers and designing one are entirely two different things. Which is why US help is there to fix those before it set sails.



I am not sore at anything. Russian Navy as of now is of the 90s and PLAN 2 decades behind the Russians. This has been discussed and debated here before. Try to read previous threads instead of high-school level trolling all the time.

Well it "Takes Two to Tango" see your post 454

I made a perfectly acceptable response to your remarks.and you responded with a trolling answer.

I'Ll clarify it for you. If the authors are too lazy take the time to find out the name of the Chinese carrier, then one is justified in thinking that they are too lazy to verify what they are reporting on. Or, they did not get the answers they wanted from the interviewe and decided to juice it up for gulliable readers. Chinese ships 2 decades behind the Russians? ROFL. They maybe not up to much to you and other forumnites here but at least they have newer ships with comprable if not better electronics,given they dominate the manufacturering of the fastest supercomputers and are a close second behind the US in AI.The Russians have not built any decent ships by their standard since the days of the USSR.

It stands to reason that if the ex Varyag is a heap of junk and then the Vikcramaditya must be too. After all she is Soviet designed and remodernised and you still have have problems with her. The Indian admirals must have sleepless nights for the billions they paid out for her.

[Double Edge]

Hmmm I thought they were supposed to utilising water from the Yangtze not the Brahmaputra.

Playing games with information sharing between rivals is one thing but suggesting the diverting of water for the south north project at the expense for countries downstream and where it is Bangladesh’s only source of water cannot be condoned

So I guess a functioning half completed project is better than nothing.

Yangtze ? it already is going towards shanghai

Have always heard they wanted to divert the yarlung starting from the great bend

[Double Edge]

[ATTACH]44771[/ATTACH]

Loads upto what is there in the pic, nothing happens after that.

Well, that this is no good, is anybody able to see the below google earth links ?

Zangmu
https://earth.google.com/web/@29.178...1.77414064t,0r

Indo China border yarlung - brahmaputra
https://earth.google.com/web/@29.145...49.8377595t,0r


Info China border langqen - sutlej
https://earth.google.com/web/@31.829....11745068t,-0r



What about these instead then

Indo China border yarlung - brahmaputra
https://earth.app.goo.gl/ui4h

Indo China border langqen - sutlej
https://earth.app.goo.gl/MK2P

Zangmu Dam
https://earth.app.goo.gl/EK7p

[Double Edge]

South north is dead. Here is the latest harebrained idea

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/socie...g-desert-bloom

Now, China denies this story

China denies report on plans to divert Brahmaputra waters | Hindu | Oct 31 2017

A leading daily had reported on plans to build a 1,000 km tunnel to carry water from Tibet to Xinjiang

China on Tuesday denied a media report that it was planning to divert water from the Brahmaputra River in Tibet to its arid Xinjiang province by constructing a 1000 kilometre tunnel.

“This is untrue. This is a false report,” said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Hua Chunying in response to a question.

The report, if true, would have had a major impact on livelihoods India and Bangladesh, as the Brahmaputra, known as Yarlung Tsangpo in China, passes through both these countries before emptying into the Bay of Bengal.

“China will continue to attach great importance to the cross-border river cooperation,” Ms. Hua observed.

The Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post had reported on Monday that Chinese engineers were testing techniques that could be used to build a 1,000 km tunnel – the world’s longest – to carry water from Tibet to Xinjiang.

Hmm, hmm....

[Oracle]

/\/\/\ Testing the waters(?) and now denying.

Another feather in the cap for terrorism backer - China blocks another move to list Masood Azhar as global terrorist by the UN: Official

[Double Edge]

Can't see the map you posted

In your network settings for DNS

Primary 8.8.8.8
Secondary 8.8.4.4

Those are googles servers and will likely resolve faster than your ISP

Usually i set these at the router so everything connects to them. You could also set them device only as a test

[Officer of Engineers]

I understand PLAN has no chance against the USN, not even the Japs outside their shores, but in terms of technology like radars, sonars, ASMs etc how does the PLAN stand as of now vis-a-vis IN.

Wrong questions to ask. The questions you should be asking is what do the Chinese have in mind for the Indian Navy and do they have the tools to do those things? What do the Indians have in mind for the Chinese Navy and does the InN have the tools to do that job?

[Oracle]

Wrong questions to ask. The questions you should be asking is what do the Chinese have in mind for the Indian Navy and do they have the tools to do those things? What do the Indians have in mind for the Chinese Navy and does the InN have the tools to do that job?

Intentions will change with added capabilities. I think PLAN is modernizing its defense forces keeping the USN in mind, not the IN.

Right now, China is more interested in keeping the sea lanes for trade open. However with opening a naval base in Djibouti, it is fairly clear China wants to checkmate the IN in the Arabian sea, and with Gwadar on it's roll it can do so. Gwadar serves another purpose, Strait of Malacca is another chokepoint for PLAN and with CPEC, China has neutralised the advantage the IN had. This makes sure China doesn't go dry for want of oil in times of conflict. Incase of a war, PLAN has to protect the Pacific front too, and will have to share her resources, but the IN has to focus only on the IOR. IN has a listening post in Madagascar and is bulding a naval base in Seychelles, and a big one in the Andamans to check PLANs base in Djibouti and fully choke the Malaccan Straits so that PLANs re-inforcements cannot pass the chokepoint. Then there is Diego Gacia that the PLAN has to take into its war plans. Overall, I don't see PLAN asserting its naval superiority in the IOR for atleast another 15 years.

As about tools, PLAN definitely has the numbers and is adding teeth every year. To win wars outside they need a navy that can match the USN if not outclass it. What China lacks in technology, they would make it up in quantity. Due to budgetary constraints, IN cannot match ship for ship with the PLAN, and from what I have read in news, the focus seems to lay in buying/building newer generation submarine fleets and submarine hunters (hide and hunt), apart from the 3 ACs that India is building with US help. Indian Navy does not wish/see a fight beyong the IOR, and will continue to concentrate all her assets in the IOR. Till 2030, PLAN and IN probably won't confront each other. Beyond that PLAN will challenge the IN and win, if India continue to red tape its defence acquisitions with bureaucratic bottlenecks.