Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[Oracle]

Calm down. You will never get through a marriage if an internet debate is causing you stress.

It was just literal. ;-)

What you're telling me here is that you're waiting for the Chinese to do the work for you. You get the exact same data the Chinese get at precisely the same time (satellite imaging). They have the advantage of ground station measuring but for what you're suggesting, satellite measurements would do just fine for disaster prevention.

So, you're waiting for the Chinese to tell you that their rivers are x meters height and would expect a difference of y (either rise or fall) meters in the next day/week/month.

In other words, you're waiting for the Chinese to do the work for you when you can clearly see how much water is coming down from the north and when it would hit the south.

India sent a probe to Mars to monitor that planet's weather. There is absolutely no excuse to blame the Chinese for not sharing their work.

Sir, I understand the points you have made. I am not accusing China of not sharing hydrology data.

Since 2006, data has been shared by the Chinese. They did not share it this year giving a stupid excuse that their monitoring stations needed repair. I countered that saying repair and maintenance are off season works, because Chinese too needs this data. I accused China of using coercive method, such as this one, because of the Doklam conflict.

I also wanted to use the Mars mission as an example of priority being set by India (and I forgot), the priority being there are important things left to do before flying to the moon. I was, and still am in favor of setting up our own centres and doing it independently. In all of this, I came to know that satellites can measure precipitation, which I didn't knew earlier. All the more reason why putting blame on China again next year would be foolish.

[Funtastic]

The numbers say otherwise. American manufacturing is growing and growing strong. However, manufacturing jobs are declining simply because of automation. The products being produced can no longer be made by human hands and must be performed by precise instruments.

The jobs the Chinese ... and the Mexicans have will disappear once automation becomes cheaper than their labour.




China's economy basically collapsed after Tiennamen with the world wide boycott. It was Deng's bargin basement prices that reversed it. I ain't kidding

Dont forget the billions invested into China by the overseas Chinese living in Asia.

China has realised that low cost manufacturing is a thing of the past.Thats why China has invested so much into robotics and A I. In fact she is only second behind the USA in AI research.

[Funtastic]

It's never was about heritage. You are Chinese, not Singaporean. You got caught pants down. And as about Uncle Tom, had it not been for Bill Clinton who lied and lobbied for China's entry in WTO, China still would be a land of peasants producing and selling opium to the world.



I have never come across such astute geo-strategic observations. Xi's little red book? Japanese Navy can sunk the PLAN in a matter of days if a war breaks out. Nobody told you that. I am not going to go into your stupid claims, since you show up from time to time in the rear-end of threads trying to earn your 50 cents.

Your masters force opium onto China at gunpoint. So you can call it payback if she was selling opium in your scenario.and what of India…..half the population of your country are illiterate

Fwacks sake, the bulk of Singapore's population is Chinese, many of theace their roots.back to China if some of us want to root for China then its our perogative.Its the PRC that have given the Chinese back their pride. No need to go around brown nosing lWestern nations like a handful of other countries in the Asian region.
Yes China was a willing manufacturer to the world but she made the rules. Anyway its all sour grapes on your part for India after headstart and better off than China, spent half a century going backwards.

I was refering to the Japanese economy. To be geo politically influential, Japan needs a strong economy to go with it as well as a capable military. In the electronic manufacturing front she is losing out to Korea and China.

Ive got more things to do then spend all my spare time on the internet. Judging from yours and others postings I can see you and others are still sore that Indias butt got kicked in 62.

[Oracle]

Which again is the result of Deng Xia Peng's bargin basement prices after Tiennamen Square. China was on the world wide boycott list as a result of Tiennamen Square. The entire Western World started cancelling all their contracts with China. What Deng did was to offer bargin basement prices to keep those contracts. Companies started to lobby their respective governments to break the boycott so they can take advantage of those terms. Among the leaders to break the boycott was Japan. This was all done BEFORE Bill Clinton's lobby to the WTO.

Interesting. Why did Japan break the boycott? WWII sins and trying to make up? What in todays' world will elicit the same kind of response towards China? It seems pressure on China due to NKs nukes aren't working.

The numbers say otherwise. American manufacturing is growing and growing strong. However, manufacturing jobs are declining simply because of automation. The products being produced can no longer be made by human hands and must be performed by precise instruments.

The jobs the Chinese ... and the Mexicans have will disappear once automation becomes cheaper than their labour.

I think you are talking about the present, how about say 2 decades back? Isn't it true that manufacturing moved to China due to cheap labor?

I agree with the last line. Manufacturing hencefort will require less but skilled workers due to automation.

Again, bargin basement prices, especially currency manipulation. You don't understand what that manipulation means. It means that if no manipulation, the price of the product should be higher but the Chinese are essentially trying to keep the prices low, offerring to sell at pennies on the dollar.

As for IP theft, that is nothing new and the Chinese actually sucked at it. Taiwan was a bigger thief with the APPLE II. Back then, we called it Clones and APPLE could do nothing to stop Taiwan from flooding the US with APPLE II Clones.

And INTEL and MICROSOFT effectively destroyed IBM's IP claim with the introduction of the 80286 and MS-DOS.

What all this essentially means is that the likes of APPLE and IBM wanted to keep prices high to maintain a decent profit margin. Deng just wanted survival wages to keep the contracts. I remember that IBM PCs were 20-30% more expensive the exact same 286 machine running MS-DOS doing the exact same Lotus-123 spreadsheets and Wordperfect documents.

Okay, so selling at pennis on the dollar. And the only way to earn huge sums of money is to then produce goods on a gigantic scale. Not to mention keeping the Chinese engaged in jobs or the CPC have the civilians running with pitchforks. The way automating is eating away jobs in the IT industry, how long before it engulfs Chinese manufacturing. I think, this is one of the main reasons for China to push for growth in the services industry.

The bold part is to show that China was poised to repeat APPLE II-Taiwan and the IBM-INTEL/MICROSOFT debacle. Only entry into the WTO controlled it, though not stopped it.

Bringing the outlaw in the ambit of law to control it. Whoever thought of it is a genius. I dislike monopoly, which is why I am not a fan of Monsanto and other seed companies and support open source software.

I can't remember what those industries are but the point here is that you should examine the subjects more closely. Not everything is as simple as it seems.

China's economy basically collapsed after Tiennamen with the world wide boycott. It was Deng's bargin basement prices that reversed it. I ain't kidding when I said that Deng dragged China by the tits from the 19th Century into the 20th Century and then kick her ass into the 21st Century, all the while kicking and screaming. Deng is dead but the kicking and screaming haven't stopped.

Indian pharmaceuticals & IT for example have restrictive market access to China.

The Chinese do have a blue water navy. Just not a very powerful one.

Yes and it is not capable of power projection out in the open seas. Not yet.

[Oracle]

Your masters force opium onto China at gunpoint. So you can call it payback if she was selling opium in your scenario.and what of India…..half the population of your country are illiterate

Fwacks sake, the bulk of Singapore's population is Chinese, many of theace their roots.back to China if some of us want to root for China then its our perogative.Its the PRC that have given the Chinese back their pride. No need to go around brown nosing lWestern nations like a handful of other countries in the Asian region.
Yes China was a willing manufacturer to the world but she made the rules. Anyway its all sour grapes on your part for India after headstart and better off than China, spent half a century going backwards.

I was refering to the Japanese economy. To be geo politically influential, Japan needs a strong economy to go with it as well as a capable military. In the electronic manufacturing front she is losing out to Korea and China.

Ive got more things to do then spend all my spare time on the internet. Judging from yours and others postings I can see you and others are still sore that Indias butt got kicked in 62.

1962 - India lost. 1967 - China lost. 1987 - tactical win for India. 2017 - another tactical win for India. Now if you analyze the last two confrontations, the Chinese leadership were wise enough not to initiate a war.

WHAT’S REALLY MAKING BEIJING ANGRY WITH SINGAPORE?

Why is it that other than failed/failing rouge states, none of the countries have good relations with China? Do you think your country, that is China, needs to do some soul searching? China has lifted millions out of poverty, but where has it failed? Not opium traders certainly, and neither can China blame the Japanese now for whatever happened in WWII.

Btw, Indias' literacy rate is 72%, better than Paks 56%. Since you have better things to do, good-day Mr. Chinese.

[Double Edge]

Maybe you will be the one that is 'crying a river, "if we change our mind and divert water from the Brahmaputra for our south north project.

Listen

South north project is a white elephant

She also questions how much enters India from China

So i get both you and Oracle with this one : D

[Double Edge]

No, it picks up speed from Tibet. Forget Brahmaputra, how does rain water find its course? Through downward slopes. Winter is time when water is scarce. Rain falls on the Chinese side. Rivers get swollen during monsoon and picks up speed from the Chinese side, China not sharing data makes it worse.

Hydrology data sharing is from May-15 to Oct-15 every year. What does this timeframe tell you?

Not a whole lot as the monsoons begin a month later

Glacial melt would begin around March ?

Am still searching for clinching reasons of the value that data holds amounting to more than just a CBM

#1. Not sharing hydrology data was a coercive tactive because of the Doklam issue this year. Glaciers are on the Chinese side.
#2. I am all for building monitoring stations on the Indian side of the border, apart from the satellites you mentioned.
#3. Data sharing has been ongoing for a decade.
#4. It is important in the sense that (China supplied data) downstream effects can be analysed much before the rain fed rivers flood India. Lives and livestock can be saved. Crops such as rice will get washed away in any case. This is why there are plans to build dams as also to generate power.

#5. Do we need China's help in this matter? Help is appreciated, but we should do it on our own. India should not complain about the same issue year after year.

Is there any evidence for the bolded bit since data sharing began

[Double Edge]

If you have google earth installed click this

https://earth.google.com/web/@29.145...49.8377595t,0r

That is where the yarlung tsangpo enters india. Keep swiping and follow the river downstream, be amazed as it gets bigger and bigger

[Double Edge]

Bhutanese King & queen visit India this week

[Double Edge]

South north is dead. Here is the latest harebrained idea

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/socie...g-desert-bloom

Was just checking to see if i could find the four or so dams that was were supposed to be under construction on the yarlung.

Google earth located just the one completed to date called Zangmu

[Double Edge]

I, too, am at a loss why Chinese data is so important. India has real time weather satellites watching the area. They can measure rainfall as well as temperatures real time. Measuring the glacier is as simple as measuring the white areas. For all intents and purposes, India already have the data. They just have to put it together.

Unless they want the Chinese to do it for them for free.

Idea came from this author posted a few years back

Decided to get into it this time

Out of the 4 dams planned then just one materialised

[Oracle]

Not a whole lot as the monsoons begin a month later

Glacial melt would begin around March ?

Am still searching for clinching reasons of the value that data holds amounting to more than just a CBM

Yes it was a CBM.

Is there any evidence for the bolded bit since data sharing began

No. It's common sense, the whole purpose of dams and sharing hydrology data.

South North or whatever it is, I have talked about it like 2 years back. Chinese dams can only hold water to its capacity, anything else they have to let go or the dam fails. The issue is, if the Chinese do build those dams or divert waters, then it would amount to daylight robbery. Captain Lemontree was right. And the Chinese cannot be trusted.

[Double Edge]

Assam already has a flood warning system in place for the entire state by now

Space Technology Inputs to Operationalise Flood Early Warning System (FLEWS) in Assam

With one pilot district having four tributaries of river Brahmaputra in 2009, with periodic requests from the Government of Assam for the inclusion of additional districts in annual phases, by the year of 2016, all existing 27 districts and 7 newly created districts of Assam have been taken up by NESAC, taking the total number of major watersheds to 43 covering both Brahmaputra and Barak valley. After the initial pilot phase from 2009 to 2011, the Government of Assam expressed its willingness to fund and operationalise this activity for the first phase from 2012 to 2014 and again the second phase from 2015 to 2017.

An average year-to-year alert success score of 75% and an average alert-to-alert lead time of 24 to 36 hours have been maintained during these years.

[Oracle]

Read this, NEED FOR WATER RESOURCES INFORMATION

[Double Edge]

Chinese dams can only hold water to its capacity, anything else they have to let go or the dam fails.

No, its not the man made dams that are the problem.

Don't know how to access this paper but the abstract is informative. Really need to see this paper : (

Earthquake triggers landslide blocking rivers, followed by breach of landslide dam generating flood in downstream which is not uncommon in mountainous terrain; e.g., the 1950 Assam-Tibet earthquake triggered landslide to block the Subansiri River and then breached that generated devastating flood in Assam.

On 11 June 2000 a high discharge flood passed through the Siang River, Arunachal and Assam which was caused due to failure of a huge debris-avalanche dam that blocked the Yigong River, a tributary of Yarlung Tsangpo in southeast Tibet, for 62 days accumulating 3000 Mm3 of water in lake behind the landslide barrier; an instantaneous discharge of 120000 cumec was recorded from 17 km downstream of the breached dam causing substantial damage to property and loss of life both from Tibet and India.

Published documents, maps and imagery testify that the Yigong Lake along the river existed since 1900 and during the last 100 years several episodes of landslide blockade and breach took place resulting downstream flood; some of these landslide incidences have been correlated with earthquakes that locate near the barrier dam and the earthquake-landslide-flood nexus constrained for events during 1938,1962,1988, and also for the 2000 landslide-flood when two earthquakes occurred four hours before the avalanche.

The recurrent landslide is located at the junction of the Jiali and the Yigong-Lulang strikeslip faults and the lake behind the dam along the Jiali fault has grown to the extent of 20 km x 1.5 km with 20 m of water column that increases during the monsoon. The Jiali fault that ruptured to generate the 1950 earthquake is highly stressed and active, and fluctuating lake water during peak monsoon is arguably responsible for nine earthquake swarms between 1968 and 2010 that locate over the fault-lake. Both the stand alone and swarm earthquakes increases landslide susceptibility, enhancing probability of flash flood.

Earthquake causes a landslide which creates a natural dam, water accumulates and bursts the dam leading to a huge release which then causes floods downstream

The Chinese would have to dynamite their dams to cause similar destruction. When their dams fill they will be controlled releases, insufficient to cause a rise of 50-100 feet rise in water level, unless an earthquake destroys their dam