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Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at the Center for Budgetary and Strategic Assessments
    There's your BIAS right there. Glorifying the enemy to beg for money. No one I know calls the YUAN a good sub. It's a noisy KILO. BTW, there is NOTHING MAGICAL about AIP. All AIP is that the sub stores compressed oxygen to stay underwater longer and to recharge their batteries using compressed O2. Once that O2 is gone, it becomes another diesel sub that has to resurface to recharge their batteries and have no way to make new compressed O2.

    Good God, we're expected to punch through much quieter and more numerous Soviet subs for WWIII. Does anyone thinks that China is a challenge compare to the USSR.

    The solution is so simple that even a bellycrawler like me can tell it to the Boat People. Have the US subs tail the Chinese subs from port outwards and follow them. Use the surface warfare group to launch attacks against the Mainland. A destroyer can launch cruise missles as well as a SSGN can. Force on weak. Not Force on strong.

    Sometimes, these budget guys get too fancy for their own good.
    Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 16 Nov 21,, 22:04.


    • I would be completely stunned if we had not established in the Pacific something comparable to the North Atlantic SOSUS set up to cover any and all exists from Chinese ports. This is old tech which I would bet has been upgraded, or outright replaced, to do the same mission. Same for any boats coming out Vladivostok.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain


      • Authoritative discussion on S400 with General Shankar

        Best argument (among a host of others) i've heard to date as to why CAATSA should not be applied to India is we ordered the S400 before CAATSA was even enacted

        S400 order was placed in 2016. CAATSA was enacted in 2017

        Therefore US would be applying this rule retro actively

        Bottom line is India at a disadvantage to China isn't in US interests to begin with.

        Sanctions or not we're going ahead for the reasons the General stated and he calls S400 a game changer.

        It's radars go as far as 600 kms and engage is up to 400 kms so we'll have dominance over the Paks. Any plane takes off from there we'll know ahead of time given how long & narrow that country is.

        We're at par with China and their S400 in the Himalayas. Now the Chinese will have to redeploy additional batteries from their eastern seaboard to gain further advantage.

        Another with Amb. PS Raghavan & Jeff Smith.

        Note the initials PS as there is another former ambassador with the same surname Raghavan but with initials TCA. Both comment on similar topics.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Nov 21,, 19:49.


        • Monkey-brain study with link to China's military roils top European university | Reuters | Nov 19 2021

          A Chinese professor at the University of Copenhagen conducted genetic research with the Chinese military without disclosing the connection, the university told Reuters, in the latest example of how China's pursuit of military-civilian technology is tapping into Western academia in the strategically sensitive area of biotechnology.
          Great, the only part that concerns me is the bolded bit..

          The professor, Guojie Zhang, is also employed by Shenzhen-based genomics giant BGI Group, which funds dozens of researchers at the university and has its European headquarters on the university's campus.

          Zhang and a student he was supervising worked with a People's Liberation Army (PLA) laboratory on research exposing monkeys to extreme altitude to study their brains and develop new drugs to prevent brain damage – a priority the PLA has identified for Chinese troops operating on high plateau borders.

          The Chinese Academy of Science, where Zhang also has a genetics lab, said of the study at the time that brain damage and death caused by high altitude on the Tibetan plateau had severely hindered "national defence construction."

          Zhang and the head of the PLA laboratory for high-altitude research, Major General Yuqi Gao, designed the study, which also lists BGI founders Wang Jian and Yang Huanming as co-authors. BGI's other joint research with Gao has involved soldiers in Tibet and Xinjiang, Reuters reported in January read more .

          That report was cited by two U.S. senators who called in September for BGI to be sanctioned by the United States as a military-linked company. Gao's research has directly improved the ability of China's rapid-advance plateau troops to carry out training and combat missions, according to the Chinese military's official news service.

          China's Academy of Military Medical Sciences launched a four-year plan in 2012 for troops to acclimatise and adapt to the low-oxygen Tibetan plateau. That plan said BGI was working with Gao's lab to test soldiers arriving in Tibet and identify genes linked to altitude sickness, which does not affect Tibetans. It said preventing altitude sickness helped to "manage border areas where ethnic minorities gather," and had far-reaching economic and political significance.

          BGI told Reuters the research with the military university aimed to understand the health risk for all people travelling to and working at high altitude.

          "The project using BGI's technology studied the changes of the pathophysiology and genomics of the human body at very high altitudes," a BGI spokesman said. "In China, many military institutions ... carry out both civilian and military research," he added.

          Gao wrote in 2018 that high altitude disease "is the main reason for reduced combat effectiveness and health damage of soldiers at high altitudes and influences the results of war on the highland plateau," and noted that drugs could be used in an emergency for the rapid deployment of soldiers.

          China's military has recently increased live fire drills in Tibet after border clashes with India.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Nov 21,, 03:30.


          • Indian soldiers facing the same problem went another way. They trained for the cold.

            A case of too much money spending on a solution looking for a problem.


            • It is intriguing though. Could drugs offer a shortcut.

              I've never heard of performance enhancing drugs on our side. Whether that is completely true i cannot say. Nobody is talking about it.

              There are pills people take if they feel ill due to altitude sickness. That is as far as it goes. That isn't boosting, its recovering.

              We've got better at spotting illness early and taking immediate steps to avoid complications. Emergency evac ready in case of contingencies. All planned for. Altitude trouble symptoms are well known and understood by now.

              Over thirty years of mountain warfare experience has taught us you cannot airdrop people from sea level onto the heights, have them pop some pills and be battle ready.

              It takes time to acclimate. We've not found any shortcuts so far.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Nov 21,, 21:28.


              • The age old joke. NASA was having problems with pens in space. The lack of gravity was not condusive to ink flow. NASA spent $millions in coming up with pens that would work in space. The Russians, facing the same probllems, used pencils.

                The Indian methods are proven and they work. Full stop.


                • The push is because of the conscripts. Shiv in one of his videos of PLA quarters was surprised to see they came equipped with oxygen stations. Every room had them.

                  There is no such facility in Indian quarters. Either you're acclimated to serve at that altitude or you go lower until you are.

                  There are PLA officers that are dropped in there at a moments notice. They don't have time to acclimate.

                  Otherwise conscripts don't want to serve there. So the PLA videos show comfortable quarters and good food.

                  I don't think its possible with drugs. You cannot take a human used to 100% O2 and put them in 50% O2 and expect them to work right away.

                  You can give them O2 tanks. That will help.

                  We have three stages i think 9k, 12k & 15k and you need to do them in sequence.

                  These guys look like they're coming from sea level to 12k and then oxygen tanks until they acclimate. That's harder.

                  Had they been based in Tibet it would not be so hard but no one wants to serve in Tibet.
                  Last edited by Double Edge; 23 Nov 21,, 20:33.


                  • U.S. invites Taiwan to its democracy summit; China angered | Reuters | Nov 24 2021

                    Interesting development.

                    Kinda like the US is drumming up support around the world to recognise Taiwan ?

                    Could be wrong

                    This after Xi warned Biden not to play with fire in their recent virtual meeting.


                    This along with other developments in the SCS where the Chinese coast guard tried to blockade the PH marines on second Thomas shoal by using water cannons on their coast guard ships to deter resupply ships sent from the PH.

                    These marines are based on the ship the Pinoys ran aground on the shoal back in '99 as a way to claim ownership over the shoal

                    US said if any armed confrontation ensued they would have to honor treaty commitments to the PH

                    Chinese blockade suddenly lifted.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; Today, 00:35.